Jets just traded with Colts for #3 pick in first round

[Misterbluesky]

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

I only really like Rosen and Darnold and let's be real here, if we move to 4 we are talking about Baker or maybe Allen.  Do I think an undersized QB who'll require a gimmick offense, possesses character concerns and posted stats in the Big 12, or a small school QB with accuracy issues who struggled against better competition is worth selling the farm for?  No.

 

I'd rather just sit at 12, take Jackson if he's there, otherwise build the best team possible around McCarron.

If Allen was there at 12..would you take him over Jackson? Allen seems to be dropping off the radar...a cannon he has ,but the cannon has bad aim.

[jumpgo692003]

1 minute ago, Manther said:

I think if the New York Football Giants are taking a RB they should trade out.  I just don't see the value in a RB at #2.  No matter how good the RB is.

deep rb class and Eli showing serious regression....my money is on qb for them.

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

If Allen was there at 12..would you take him over Jackson? Allen seems to be dropping off the radar...a cannon he has ,but the cannon has bad aim.

 

 

I would be perfectly fine taking Allen / Baker / Jackson at 12 and having 4 picks between #22 - #65.  The boom / bust potential is pretty mitigated when you are looking at adding 4 other high level players.

[Manther]

18 minutes ago, jumpgo692003 said:

lol.  doubt they can afford the #1.  both 1sts, 2nd, both 3rds and a 1st next year.  I don't see the bills doing that.  silly season

That is a lot to give up.  If the FO thinks there is a guy to take.........then you do it.  If not, you don't.

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Misterbluesky said:

If Allen was there at 12..would you take him over Jackson? Allen seems to be dropping off the radar...a cannon he has ,but the cannon has bad aim.

There's no point in drafting a QB at 12 if the big three are already off the board.  Mine as well keep the picks focus on filling holes at other positions.  Man this sucks.

[BBillsWestCoast]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The good news is........if they pass on a QB this year.......when they get their next shot at a decent crop of QB's everyone they drafted this year will be almost eligible for free agency at the same time!  

 

Here's the thing...........having 6 picks in the first 3 rounds sounds great.........but it's an era of 4 year rookie contracts now and a time where teams are making more informed decisions on PROVEN players in FA and getting better results from that process.

 

There is an argument to be made AGAINST having 10-12 draft picks in a given year...........a prime example of this would be guys like Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer..........if the Bills had a couple spare recent 3rd and 4th round safeties in development on the roster perhaps the Bills never go after one or either.    I think Cleveland is encountering issues with having too many draft picks to manage and properly evaluate their own talent.    

 

It's never been more important to have a franchise QB that you can shuffle the deck around rather than draft-and-pay-everyone-around and teams that take chances on QB's are then being REWARDED for placing priority on QB and then having balance in the rest of their personnel dealings.       

 

I agree. The way teams are built are completely different. If you have a core QB, O-line and D-line, then you can build fast. If you have one (the Bills have D-line), then you have to build enough for free agents to want to come. I see us dropping into the top 10 next year. We have to get a QB and #2 or #4 or #5 are the only options. I love that the drought is over, but I knew it would bite us. Every year there have been QBs we don't land a franchise one and every year we are top of the draft there isn't one there. Not sure how the Giants won't rape us on a trade.

[jumpgo692003]

Just now, Manther said:

That is a lot to give up.  If the FO thinks there is a guy to take.........then you do it.  If not, you don't.

exactly.  he better be the franchise qb though.  that is a large chunk of future assets to give up imo

[Doc Brown]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

If that's the case they should've held onto Tyrod, Watkins and Glenn. 

LOL.  True.  Same old Bills.

[Manther]

5 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

If Allen was there at 12..would you take him over Jackson? Allen seems to be dropping off the radar...a cannon he has ,but the cannon has bad aim.

I like Allen more than Jackson.

[xRUSHx]

8 minutes ago, Phils n Bills said:

This is a tough one. The stars finally aligned for us after 20 years. We have the draft wealth to move in a qb heavy draft. Move up to 12, ready to make another leap and we get beat to the punch with the 3rd pick. Let’s hope we’re still aiming higher.

Same old Bills, missed by that much. Maybe someday we will be fortunate to get a franchise worthy QB, sadly that day has yet to come. Always next year, oh wait next years QB draft class has zero worth drafting, maybe 2020. Very disappointed 

[Big Turk]

10 minutes ago, Phils n Bills said:

This is a tough one. The stars finally aligned for us after 20 years. We have the draft wealth to move in a qb heavy draft. Move up to 12, ready to make another leap and we get beat to the punch with the 3rd pick. Let’s hope we’re still aiming higher.

 

Why do we need to aim higher? What if they feel like there are 3 QBs, any of which they'd be OK with?

 

I'll put money that 2 QBs that everyone says are "Top 10 locks" will in fact be selcted outside the Top 10...happens every year...draft pundits ideas usually dont align with NFL teams ideas.

[xRUSHx]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I would be perfectly fine taking Allen / Baker / Jackson at 12 and having 4 picks between #22 - #65.  The boom / bust potential is pretty mitigated when you are looking at adding 4 other high level players.

Allen will have to sit 2 years, big waste. Jackson is no different then Tyrod. All this moving around was a big nothingburger

[jahnyc]

If we can't trade up for one of the top QBs in this draft, I would not be surprised if the Bills traded down again this year to gain another first round pick for next year to give them flexibility to draft a QB for next year.

[Boatdrinks]

8 minutes ago, Manther said:

I think if the New York Football Giants are taking a RB they should trade out.  I just don't see the value in a RB at #2.  No matter how good the RB is.

The thinking about this has changed somewhat in the NFL. At least with a stud RB like Barkley. He's going to be the NYG Todd Gurley. The G men would likely move down IF they could still get the player. The Bills pick at 12 would not facilitate this. Maybe another team that possesses a higher pick for the, to move into. Otherwise, they stay at 2. 

[billsherd]

I think with this trade Jets just messed up the whole Beane Plan.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Cleveland: Likely taking Darnold

Giants: Rosen, Mayfield

Jets: Rosen, Allen, Mayfield

Broncos: Allen, Mayfield or Jackson

 

Bills: Leftovers 

 

We are doing 2004 all over again. You have to get the top guy. 

 

And, who is that, exactly?  There is no "top guy".  They all have serious flaws.

 

3 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

I don't know how old you are but history has a freaking interesting way of repeating itself. I was being just as dramatic when we settled for Losman and everyone called me an idiot. 

 

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, but you are definitely attempting to rewrite history to fit your own agenda.

 

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You are definitely an elite poster my friend... It's amazing how many people don't remember 2004. I saw people saying they wanted the Bills to stay at 12 and draft defense, then get whatever QB is left at 22.

 

They can not accept leftovers. Or they need to abort this year and kick the can down the road to getting to the top in the next couple years.

 

Too bad that you and your friend don't remember that accepting "leftovers" in 2004 rather than chasing after a first round pretender would have yielded Matt Schaub. 

 

You both are hysterical babies ... and ignorant of what went down in 2004.

• 2004 had a bonafide consensus #1 pick in Elli Manning.  Nobody else was even close, and that included all positions not just QBs. Consensus #1 picks hit at a much higher rate than do all over picks, including the guys taken at #2 or #3.   In 2018, there isn't even a consensus on the best QB.   That suggests that maybe all of them are pretenders or, more than likely, one will actually make a decent NFL starter and the rest will bust.
• Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger were both elite prospects significantly better than any of the QB prospects in 2018.  That's the major difference between 2004 and 2018: the quality of the prospects.  Losman was easily a better prospect than Jackson or Rudolph, and at least as good as Allen.  Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield are only marginally better prospects than Losman, and nowhere near as good as the top three from 2004.
• JP Losman would likely have been a second rounder in 2004 if the Bills hadn't traded up to grab him in the first round when Pittsburgh took Roethlisberger at #11.  It was a move predicated on placating the fans who had worked themselves into a QB frenzy.  If Donahoe had waited until the second round and taken Losman, or if he was gone, taken the "leftover" who turned out to be Matt Schaub, who was a decent starter (at least as good as a Dalton or Flacco or Tannehill if not better), the Bills would have had a shot at Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft.
• 2018 really resembles 2011 or 2012 more than it resembles 2004 when there were lots of QB prospects taken in the first round (4 in each draft) but only 3 had real success (Newton, Luck, Tannehill), although both of those drafts featured consensus #1 picks who, like Manning, were clearly much better prospects than the over-hyped pretenders whom teams wasted first rounders on (and Washington wasted a lot more than just that).  Aside from the #1 consensus picks, the real quality in both 2011 and 2012 largely came from the "leftovers" or developmental guys who were drafted after the first round: Andy Dalton and Tyrod Taylor in 2011 and Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, and Nick Foles in 2012.  Oh, yeah, and a real "leftover" among "leftovers", undrafted FA Case Keenum also came out of 2012.
• The Bills have been carefully building up a cache of draft picks that they could use to move up to get a QB prospect if one they like is available, but they don't seem likely to waste those picks drafting a QB that they don't really believe in just to draft a first round QB.  That seemed to be the message from Beane's press conference.  Making personnel moves primarily to pander to the fan base rather than to build a winning football team doesn't seem to be part of the Beane-McDermott regime's DNA, which is a sea change from the way the Bills operated in 2004.

In reality, what you two are suggesting --- trading whatever it takes to move to the top of the draft board to take a QB, any QB with a lot of positive hype from the media draft mavens -- is EXACTLY what the Bills did in 2004 that got them Losman.  I'm sorry that the Bills picked TJ Graham over Russell Wilson in 2012, but I'm sure not sorry that the Bills passed on Matt Leinart, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Brandon Weeden.  Too bad they didn't do the same with Losman.  

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by SoTier

[Tyrod's friend]

 

9 minutes ago, jumpgo692003 said:

widely?  odd considering most i have read and heard say after the top 4, there is a gap....a large one.  some believe after top 3 (excluding allen)  the general consensus has

Rosen and Darnold...... some add Mayfield......a few add allen.  don't think Jackson or Rudolph is thought of anywhere near them.

I'll start with NFL tracker. Their scoring has correctly led to the first QB taken pretty frequently, and I think their first two have always gone 1-2.

They score Darnold 7.1, but all of the remaining QBs between 6 an 6.1. (By the way, the drop between Darnold and the next guy is the largest in the last five years. And the drop between all other players available, and the second best QB is ridiculous.)

Ok, ok, I can hear it now. Nobody likes NFL Tracker, and Chris Trappasso is an idiot. How about Mayock? He's fairly indecisive about choices - tends to like a lot of them. Rudolph is clearly not in the mix but the others are close. I've listened to every Waldman review of all the QBs - he's not really decisive, although he likes Rosen a lot. It's clear he can't stand Allen, but then again he gives a LOT, I mean ALOT of love to Jackson whom almost no one else considers in the mix.

That's what I've read, seen and heard. I know there are plenty of people that do a lot more research here than me. But I don't think I'm far off in saying there's no clear cut, blemish-less QB. 
 

[Chuck Wagon]

12 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

Allen will have to sit 2 years, big waste. Jackson is no different then Tyrod. All this moving around was a big nothingburger

 

 

Clearly the Colts didn't want to move too far down the board.  Glenn clearly wasn't in our long term plans.  In moving from 21 to 12 we basically got 2nd round pick value of out him.  Moving to 12 was a necessary move to continue discussions on a trade up.  Even if we can't move up and 4 or 5 QBs are off the board. Moving up to 12 will net the ~7-8th best position player in the draft, a guy who was likely gone well before 21.

[jumpgo692003]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Why do we need to aim higher? What if they feel like there are 3 QBs, any of which they'd be OK with?

 

I'll put money that 2 QBs that everyone says are "Top 10 locks" will in fact be selcted outside the Top 10...happens every year...draft pundits ideas usually dont align with NFL teams ideas.

I would bet the top 3 are gone by pick 5.  allen being the wildcard

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

 

I agree. The way teams are built are completely different. If you have a core QB, O-line and D-line, then you can build fast. If you have one (the Bills have D-line), then you have to build enough for free agents to want to come. I see us dropping into the top 10 next year. We have to get a QB and #2 or #4 or #5 are the only options. I love that the drought is over, but I knew it would bite us. Every year there have been QBs we don't land a franchise one and every year we are top of the draft there isn't one there. Not sure how the Giants won't rape us on a trade.

 

Compounding the issue for the Bills is McD wanting to pass on QB last year..........and the perception that he made a trade with a connection in KC rather than the team with lesser prospects for the coming season and ended up with the 22nd pick instead of the 4th pick.      They are lucky they got a good player in Tre White otherwise they'd be getting crucified Browns-style for it.