Regardless of QB pick, the Bills will be ok. Here's why.

[LA Grant]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Care to expand?

 

I’ll tell you what I do like so far, dumping Dareus and Watkins, very bold and somewhat ‘cleansing’.

 

I liked the trade back last year and stockpiling picks. I like what they did with the Glenn trade as well.

 

BUT I still need to see where this all leads to, and the end result. The actual fruit. And for the record, I’m willing to be patient. I understand you need to crawl before you can walk.

 

Yes it was fun to snap the drought, no question. But fun doesn’t necessarily mean “impressive”.

 

We back-doored in. Would like to see us control our own destiny at some point. Until then, I’m cautious.

 

There is no "end result." Every season is its own thing. 

 

They made the playoffs — back-door, yes, but doesn't change the fact — and they did so in what was clearly the beginning of an overall roster rebuild. The new regime ended a 17 year playoff drought and they weren't even going all in on doing so.

 

If that doesn't inspire some confidence, I am not sure what would. 

[LA Grant]

2 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

Sorry but that's a complete non-answer to the question you were asked. 

 

Your central point seemed to be that we now have the ability to develop a QB.  But when asked WHO is doing the developing, you point to "organizational stability" doing this?  Sorry but if you're going to argue that point, you need to specify the name of the QB coach or OC along with their past developmental successes.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure any of us can do that.  

 

Huh? Why is it a non-answer? Does Beane not get some credit for Cam Newton's success? Our new OC Brian Daboll just won a National Championship with a freshman QB. It might be more reassuring if our coaches were Pat Shurmur, Kyle Shanahan, or Andy Reid but their mere presence wouldn't guarantee results. 

 

The organizational stability, IMO, is key in development. It doesn't guarantee anything but the Bills didn't have that for their last two 1st round QB picks, and that was a factor as much as the QBs they picked — EJ was an obvious reach and Losman may not have been as much of a reach, but he was not considered to be the same level of prospect as Ben, Phil, or Eli.

 

The fact that the Bills aren't in "desperation mode" like they have been for the last decade plus, coupled with a virtual guarantee they will get one of the top prospects, should give fans reason to be optimistic that whoever they pick will be the right pick for the team. 

[LA Grant]

2 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

While I do share optimism that we will be ok, I am still a tad bit skeptical.

 

Organizational consistency is a wonderful thing, but eventually it will come down to coaching. Our QB coach happens to be Dave Culley. He is a really good WR coach and I HOPE it translates to his new position. A QB like Allen needs a lot of help and I don't know if Culley is up to that task. At the very least it's a fair concern in my book.

 

Now there are things I don't know about Culley. I don't know how much he actually knows or doesn't know about the QB position. I don't know how well he teaches. I don't know how he is with the guys in the film room or on the practice field. There are 2 things I do know about him.

 

1. Last year when Peterman was called into action he was extremely unprepared. In my view that falls on the OC however blame must be given to Peterman's limitations as well as the guy that was working with him on a day to day basis, Culley.

 

2. When he left KC, Andy Reid said that the reason Culley wanted to come here was to build his resume for an eventual HC position. I like that. The man has aspirations. I don't know what kind of coach he is, but if he wants to get noticed...this is his shot. If we get, say Allen. And Allen turns out well it's easy to see both Culley and Daboll (if he's still here) getting a lot of credit. Best case for them it becomes a Reich/Diflippo situation where they can both progress. With his goals in mind, I believe Culley will work his arse off to succeed here.

 

True, everything about Peterman is cause for concern. The fact that they thought he was ready is not very inspiring, but at least they didn't try to double-down on that mistake and start him again the next week, or even in the 2nd half of the Chargers game. I don't even blame them for benching Tyrod at that point, or rather, I wouldn't blame them if they had a viable QB2, because the offense was really bad the previous week against NO.  But to your point — yeah, the evaluation/preparation/assessment of Peterman is not going into the staff's "good" column.

 

The second point is reason to be optimistic about Culley. I don't know much else about him but that would be a good sign. Daboll bouncing around the league doesn't bother me because, contextually, those were all pretty bad situations where he was close to being a lame duck each time. The philosophy he seems to embrace is a modern passing offense, and we saw him help Alabama win a National Championship with a freshman QB who earned offensive player of the game. 

 

I think about the 2004 QB class, and if the Bills picked Roethlisberger and the Steelers picked Losman, how different would history be? It's hard to say. Ben is obviously much better than JP, but he wasn't right away — they were very principled in their approach to bring him along, and he was on a strong Super Bowl-caliber roster.

 

It's possible the Bills & Steelers would've flipped fortunes if that pick were flipped, OR it's possible JP & Ben would've flipped fortunes. I tend to think it would have been the latter — not that JP would be as good as Ben, but he might've had a much better and longer career, whereas Ben might've been bungled in his development with Mularkey & become more of a journeyman. 

 

We can't know the future, but the predictive signs that we have, IMO, favor the Bills (for once). 

[BillnutinHouston]

13 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

Huh? Why is it a non-answer? Does Beane not get some credit for Cam Newton's success? Our new OC Brian Daboll just won a National Championship with a freshman QB. It might be more reassuring if our coaches were Pat Shurmur, Kyle Shanahan, or Andy Reid but their mere presence wouldn't guarantee results. 

 

The organizational stability, IMO, is key in development. It doesn't guarantee anything but the Bills didn't have that for their last two 1st round QB picks, and that was a factor as much as the QBs they picked — EJ was an obvious reach and Losman may not have been as much of a reach, but he was not considered to be the same level of prospect as Ben, Phil, or Eli.

 

The fact that the Bills aren't in "desperation mode" like they have been for the last decade plus, coupled with a virtual guarantee they will get one of the top prospects, should give fans reason to be optimistic that whoever they pick will be the right pick for the team. 

 

I respectfully disagree. Development is about one x's and o's guy sitting down with the QB and teaching the position.  "Organization" is far too nebulous to be of any help to a young QB.

 

I'm ok with the Daboll hire but his national championship was won...wait for it...IN SPITE OF the play of his starting QB.  Again, Daboll May be associated with winning but that's not the same as proving he developed a QB. 

 

Look I get it, you want to be optimistic.  So do I.  But I'm not convinced that we've moved the needle on our ability to develop a QB. 

[LA Grant]

Just now, BillnutinHouston said:

I respectfully disagree. Development is about one x's and o's guy sitting down with the QB and teaching the position.  "Organization" is far too nebulous to be of any help to a young QB.

 

I'm ok with the Daboll hire but his national championship was won...wait for it...IN SPITE OF the play of his starting QB.  Again, Daboll May be associated with winning but that's not the same as proving he developed a QB. 

 

Look I get it, you want to be optimistic.  So do I.  But I'm not convinced that we've moved the needle on our ability to develop a QB. 

 

I hear you. 

 

Unfortunately we won't really know until at least 2 years from now how this QB develops and then try to guess why he developed whichever way he did. 

 

I'm just glad that we don't have to also worry so much about whether or not Beane/McD will be "on the hot seat" during the next few years (unless things go really bad). 

 

Making the playoffs in Year 1 gives them a lot of leeway, for one, but also the fact that they came in together with a unified vision, as opposed to the various shotgun marriages of the last decade), means the Bills should have a degree of "stability" and "consistency" and "not constantly working from a panicky reactionary mindset to keep their job." That doesn't impact the Xs and Os but I do think it has as much of an impact, if not more, on the overall team success.

 

And if the team is successful, it's much easier for the QB to be, too. 

[WideRightRevenge]

Overstating the obvious ... we have sucked at both the QB and passing game (Offensive Coordinator list is horrible) for over 15 years ... hopefully the "process" will find us an able bodied signal caller and match a game plan to extend the ball downfield

[billsfan1959]

4 hours ago, LA Grant said:

 

There is no "end result." Every season is its own thing. 

 

They made the playoffs — back-door, yes, but doesn't change the fact — and they did so in what was clearly the beginning of an overall roster rebuild. The new regime ended a 17 year playoff drought and they weren't even going all in on doing so.

 

If that doesn't inspire some confidence, I am not sure what would. 

Absolutely. Add to that the fact that this team had every reason to fold after that awful three game stretch in the middle of the season when everything seemed to be falling apart. Instead, they played hard and did everything they needed to do down the stretch to put themselves in a position for a playoff berth - I don't care that they "back-doored in" with a miracle play. After what this coaching staff did with what they had to work with, and after the moves the FO made to put this team in a great position to develop over the next couple of years into a consistently competitive team, they have earned my confidence. 

[dma0034]

I think McCarron starts next year. The best way to protect your young QB is a good defense and a good run game. You sit your QB for the rookie year and build up your O-Line. I think the Defense is pretty set except at LB