Lost in QB buzz... No help at WR or TE

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Its very possible they think the problem has always been the QB...

 

Right, because the QB dropped Shady (and his own) YPA both by 1.4 (and 1) YPA respectively? 

 

Tyrod did hold onto the ball too long, but he also saved a lot of negative pass plays with his legs. 

Sometimes you see a pocket he failed to step into.

And sometimes you see a freakin' jailbreak.

 

I get it that we've signed a bunch of guys and FA/the draft isn't over, but I also think fan concern is understandable.  Now if they feel the draft is rich in OL talent but not so much on DL and LB where they'll be able to draft (or they need more help at DL and LB) I can see that.   But concern that lack of action on the OL and WR front might foreshadow neglect is also understandable.

[Lurker]

10 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Interested in why you think OL is a big weakness. Groy has proven equal to Wood in the time he played C. Dawkins made Glenn expendable -which is saying a Lot! Guard is solid still with Incognito coming off another Pro Bowl and Miller/Ducasse are competent. Sure, add a couple pieces in the Draft. But a ‘big weakness’? I don’t see it. If the new coaches plan according to the talent -which hasn’t been the case- at least 25 teams wish they had or OL, IMO.

 

Groy's body of work is so small I'm not sure why he's given a pass on being plug-n-play.    Seven starts in 2016 is nothing to write home about, nor is the $5 million two-year deal he signed in 2017.    That's not much more than special teamer money, as evidenced by the Stanford and Bush signings yesterday.

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	AV
Career					41	11	6
3 yrs		BUF			37	8	5
1 yr		CHI			4	3	1
2014	24	CHI	lg	79	4	3	1
2015	25	BUF		72	5	0	0
2016	26	BUF	c	72	16	7	4
2017	27	BUF	te	72	16	1	1

 

Dawkins had a very good rookie year, but young OL often struggle in year two as the league catches up with film work and game planning around them.  Richie is another year older and while he remains their best player on the line, likely won't be getting better from here on out.   Miller/Ducasse are non-entities.   Drafting their replacement should be a priority, along with upgrading the RT spot.

 

Finding 1-2 quality reserves is also imperative, as one or more of the starting five will surely miss time to injury in 2018.

 

It's a competent to slightly above-average line.   But Beane has a lot more work to do to solidify and improve it, IMO, and I expect help to come on day two of the draft...

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think they’ll take the route that the Bears are taking. Get the QB first, make sure he’s your guy, then surround him with talent. 

 

Plus, what WR/TE would want to come to a team with an unsettled QB situation? Look where the big FA WRs went.

 

The latter is a very good point.  The WR/TE career is in the QB's hands, and what WR/TE wants to put himself in unknown hands?

 

But you gotta get your Hawg Molly center of the line fixed up at the same time as you get your QB or he won't last. 

 

Loved what Gettleman had to say, loved what the Vikings did, just praying our guys see it the same way.

[Luka]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Lie to yourself but Brady, Brees, and Rodgers would have struggled playing with our WR corps from 2017.  The Bills absolutely need to get better at WR, but there are still quality WRs out there ... and likely more to be added.

 

Oh yea, I'm sure. Because all three of them never see turnover at any of those positions LOL Tyrod sucked last year, the receivers just became the scapegoat.

[Boca BIlls]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills had major issues with their WR corps last year yet there has been no wiff of activity to improve this group so far.  The actions suggest that the Bills are comfortable with what they have.  Perhaps a draft pick or two adds to the group but it is rare that a draftee contributes in a big way their first year.  With all of the buzz around QB somebody has to be available on the other end of the throw.

They had a major problem at QB.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

Bs.       Brady w Clay Shady Zay and KB would kick all sorts of butt

The topic was the 2017 WR corps and the first 2 players you list aren't WRs. The 3rd was a rookie with the worst catch% since targets became a stat, and the 4th played 5.25 games for the Bills.

 

Now moving into 2018 we have a hopefully healthy KB, Zay coming into his 2nd offseason with a clear head and a fixed shoulder, Holmes, Streater, Reilly, & Dupre. Looks like a solid X, a young slot guy with potential, and depth guys. We still need a Z. Here's hoping they pursue a Nelson, Pryor, Maclin type. Personally I think Nelson's experience would do a lot for the WR room as well as our young QBs.

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills had major issues with their WR corps last year yet there has been no wiff of activity to improve this group so far.  The actions suggest that the Bills are comfortable with what they have.  Perhaps a draft pick or two adds to the group but it is rare that a draftee contributes in a big way their first year.  With all of the buzz around QB somebody has to be available on the other end of the throw.

You can't fix everything in one off-season. The WR market has been crazy thus far as it's a weak spot in the draft. It will probably be addressed with a 2nd tier FA signing. The Bills will also hope for a big improvement from Zay Jones, who was a disappointment even for a rookie season. Look for a bigger upgrade in 2019. 

[Boca BIlls]

49 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The topic was the 2017 WR corps and the first 2 players you list aren't WRs. The 3rd was a rookie with the worst catch% since targets became a stat, and the 4th played 5.25 games for the Bills.

 

Now moving into 2018 we have a hopefully healthy KB, Zay coming into his 2nd offseason with a clear head and a fixed shoulder, Holmes, Streater, Reilly, & Dupre. Looks like a solid X, a young slot guy with potential, and depth guys. We still need a Z. Here's hoping they pursue a Nelson, Pryor, Maclin type. Personally I think Nelson's experience would do a lot for the WR room as well as our young QBs.

So he should have went Zay, KB, Clay, Shady? The title says WR and TE... oh **** one was a RB lol

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[PaattMaann]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

You can't fix everything in one off-season. The WR market has been crazy thus far as it's a weak spot in the draft. It will probably be addressed with a 2nd tier FA signing. The Bills will also hope for a big improvement from Zay Jones, who was a disappointment even for a rookie season. Look for a bigger upgrade in 2019. 

 

Exactly...best you can do is...what you can do. Beane has done a good job filling holes, and will continue to do so the best he can.

 

"Rome wasn't built in a day"

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not addressed to me, but I think OL is a big weakness because it proved itself as a big weakness last year, and then got weaker.   Moreover if we're getting a rookie, the #1 thing we need to do is keep him clean and the way to do that is try to go Dallas on the OL.  You can't have too good of an OL for a rookie.

 

I don't agree that Groy proved equal to Wood, or that Dawkins played equal to Glenn, but even if we stipulate that they did, now we need an NFL-capable swing tackle and backup C/G at the minimum and they have to be starting capable because someone WILL get hurt.  And I note even with the "not weakness" thing you don't mention Mills at RT.  That's a need too.

 

Needing 3 guys at 3 positions on OL sounds like "weakness" to me.

 

As for last year, Ducasse may or may not be competent, but everyone's YPA on the team dropped last year so something was off.  While Tyrod has never been very good at stepping into the pocket, it has to be admitted a lot of the time he didn't have a pocket to step into - Jailbreak!

 

I think PFF rated us as one of the best OLs - is that influencing you?  I don't agree with their metrics for OLs

CHFF has us mediocre, #16, on Offensive Hog Index with 19th at YPA rushing and 27th at Negative pass play % (6th at 3rd down conversion, which raises us)

We were 10th in 2016, so something changed for the worse.  If it's Castillo and he doesn't have the guys he wants for his thang, better go gett'em.

 

As for the "new coaches" - isn't Castillo still there?

 

 

 

 

I did mention Miller, who I think is fine. Didn’t see the PFF rankings. They think we’re good? So do I, with a couple quality reinforcements, as you stated.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The need to get a WR who demands safety help over the top CANNOT be over-emphasized.

 

People make the mistake of looking at KB and Zay and thinking.........hey, two potentially very good receivers.

 

Problem is that their skillsets over-lap.........both are posession guys who labor to get open and thus only demand single coverage.  

 

Look at the infamous PI play against KB in the Jax playoff game..........the Jags were able to force that throw by playing 10 men and the LOS and leaving KB single covered.

 

He's more like a Jimmy Graham than a #1 WR........you need someone to loosen up the field for him.....and a washed up Mike Wallace or Jeremy Maclin.........or a tiny target like Tavon Austin(who is NOT a deep threat).........will not influence defenses to keep a safety back.    

 

Without that........more pressure in the immobile McCarron's face and more TFL's for Bills RB's.

[corta765]

So truthfully I feel people are a little over the top on WR/TE help. The team has Benjamin, Clay, Zay, & Shady plus Ivory as backup. That's a decent starting point to work with especially for a team that likes to run the ball. While they need another WR/TE the FA talent is limited and expensive this year so that makes things difficult. If you are the Bills you have to prioritize to fix the defensive holes which are far bigger and if stabilized which it seems they may have done would help to take off pressure from needing the offense to score like crazy in year 1 with a rookie QB.

Second whoever the new rookie is that most likely is starting week 1 you typically want younger WR/TEs drafted who he can grow with that are also inexpensive due to rookie contracts. The draft hasn't happened yet and the Bills are exactly 1 day into true free agency. While the Bills have spent it has modest and calculated which people said they would do this year. Next years FA I could see them more aggressive with the rest of the roster being more settled and established.

[BillsFan4]

Did you see the insane contracts these free agent WR's got on day 1 of free agency?! 

 

Sammy Watkins became the 3rd highest paid wide receiver in the NFL at $16M per year - just $1M less than Antonio Brown! 

 

Allen Robinson got $14M per year coming off a torn ACL (Julio Jones makes $14.25M)

 

Paul Richardson got 5 years and $40M, after a 700yd season last year.

 

Albert Wilson got 3 years and $24M

 

Ryan Grant got 4 years and $29M - after a 4 year career in which he caught 84 passes for 984 total yards! Insane! 

 

 

I think the Bills will address the WR position, but I don't think they were willing to give out silly money, especially before they even have their QB on the roster (a QB who may not necessarily be ready to start year 1...). 

Edited March 15, 2018 by BillsFan4

[ricojes]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills had major issues with their WR corps last year yet there has been no wiff of activity to improve this group so far.  The actions suggest that the Bills are comfortable with what they have.  Perhaps a draft pick or two adds to the group but it is rare that a draftee contributes in a big way their first year.  With all of the buzz around QB somebody has to be available on the other end of the throw.

The actions do not suggest they are comfortable at those positions, but does say they will not over pay!  That is the smart thing to do.  Plus more cuts to come from teams throughout the league before the draft.  They will add, have faith and be patient. 

[Magox]

Doomed!!

[auburnbillsbacker]

There is still the draft and 8,000 days of free agency left.  

[frostbitmic]

Right now our WR corps looks like this ...

 

1. Kelvin Benjamin

2. Zay Jones

3.  ??? (Deonte Thompson FA) other FA or draft pick

4. Andre Holmes

5. Rod Streater

5. Brandon Reilly

5. Malachi Dupre

 

A better passer should improve this group.

[K-9]

I humbly submit that we aren’t nearly as bereft of talent at WR and TE as has been reported in these parts.

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, corta765 said:

So truthfully I feel people are a little over the top on WR/TE help. The team has Benjamin, Clay, Zay, & Shady plus Ivory as backup. That's a decent starting point to work with especially for a team that likes to run the ball. While they need another WR/TE the FA talent is limited and expensive this year so that makes things difficult. If you are the Bills you have to prioritize to fix the defensive holes which are far bigger and if stabilized which it seems they may have done would help to take off pressure from needing the offense to score like crazy in year 1 with a rookie QB.

Second whoever the new rookie is that most likely is starting week 1 you typically want younger WR/TEs drafted who he can grow with that are also inexpensive due to rookie contracts. The draft hasn't happened yet and the Bills are exactly 1 day into true free agency. While the Bills have spent it has modest and calculated which people said they would do this year. Next years FA I could see them more aggressive with the rest of the roster being more settled and established.

 

Outside of the omnipresent need for a franchise QB.........WR is the #1 problem, IMO.

 

Not having a guy who could play outside the numbers totally undermined the passing game AND the running game in 2017.

 

Dennison was an issue but it was basically the same primary personnel that was 7th in the NFL in scoring in 2016 thru Tyrods 15 games.........except for the WR position.

 

Yeah, the defense obviously needed help at many positions but they would need to be the 85' Bears to make up for the Bills 2017 offense sans the plays made by Tyrod outside of the pocket.

 

And yeah.......having a QB that gets the ball out quicker sounds good in theory..........but look at the little available AJM tape..........it doesn't resemble Tom Brady dissecting a defense.......it looks like a dude who is a little awkward in the pocket throwing balls up for grabs to WR's who are winning their matchups.     

Edited March 15, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I humbly submit that we aren’t nearly as bereft of talent at WR and TE as has been reported in these parts.

 

 

Not necessarily "bereft" of talent......by the end of last season the WR talent had matriculated from hands-down THE WORST to the point where it was comparable to the bottom 10 worst in the NFL at least...........they were just partially useless because they were so new to the offense.   TT was still showing KB to line up on plays even in the playoff game.

 

It's about lacking an essential catalyst to activate the rest.

 

KB is a nice player for the right money........but he's a conundrum........more split-out TE than #1 WR........he has the potential to either create another crater on their roster after next season or become a Dareus-like cap burden on this team down the road.