Wait a second...What About Shaq Lawson????

[Mango]

I don't want to turn this into a Whaley thread, and he deserved to get canned. 

 

Guys like Washington and Shaq are guys to fit a system, for a coach he didn't want/hire. I am more upset at Rex and Pegula/Brandon for that BS. He also assembled Schwartz and Pettine's defenses so if we are gonna knock him for one, give him credit for the other. 

[billsfan89]

I think Beane knows that most of his draft capital is probably going to go towards picking up a QB. What little is left will likely be spent on the offensive line (Right side is a complete mess) or receiver (which is right now Benjamin and the hope Zay Jones could turn it around.) I think Lawson and Hughes won't command much on the trade market and trading Hughes won't offer much cap relief. 

 

Not to mention Jerry Hughes had a decent year least year. He wasn't fantastic but he was decent. Hughes was the best defender against the run and still delivered a good amount of QB pressures. Teams also were running over this team pretty bad the second half of the year. So a pass rushers numbers are going to dip when teams just run all over the defense (less attempts to get a sack.)

[JoeF]

I know its hard to understand after nearly 2 decades of poor roster building...but there's this concept called depth....it means having players at key positions beyond the starter who can actually play at an NFL level in NFL games....I am just beginning to remember this concept after having roster amnesia...for us old timers, its...

 

Kenneth Davis

Frank Reich

Steve Tasker at WR

Mike Lodish

Cliff Hicks

Pete Metzalaras (when he was backing up McKeller)...etc....

Edited March 15, 2018 by JoeF

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don't want to turn this into a Whaley thread, and he deserved to get canned. 

 

Guys like Washington and Shaq are guys to fit a system, for a coach he didn't want/hire. I am more upset at Rex and Pegula/Brandon for that BS. He also assembled Schwartz and Pettine's defenses so if we are gonna knock him for one, give him credit for the other. 

 

Had they kept Schwartz and promoted him to head coach and hired Roman to coordinate the offense (and made the same personnel decisions on offense which is doubtful unless Roman made most of those decisions) then that 2015 team could have been special even if Mario fell apart on the team (Which might not have happened as rapidly if he was in the right scheme.)

 

They broke apart a top defensive unit in the league with all the pieces in place to implement a new scheme not suited for the talent. They then tried to rebuild it with a fresh draft class and it didn't work. It is unfortunate such an infusion of offensive talent begat such an exedous of defensive talent. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I see that the Bills have signed a guy named Trent Murphy.  based on the big contract they gave him, it means that the former #1 draft pick Shaquille Lawson is probably not going to be playing much DE.  It really makes me wonder why, he was the #1 pick overall and should be starting.  Why was he ever drafted in the first place?  I mean he was a 4-3 DE that was drafted in Rex Ryan’s 3-4, yet he can hardly play in the 4-3?  WTF

 

So so if we signed Trent Murphy to play DE from Washington then what happens with Shaq?  

 

Seeing that that he is classified as AFWDP (Another Failed Whaley Draft Pick) I really think the Bills are going to give him away for peanuts.   Like a 6th or 7th round draft pick

 

1) He wasn't the first pick overall.

2) On any well run team people start based on merit not on draft position

3) Lawson wasn't one of their guys

 

You seem to struggle with the notion of something called sunk cost, as do many humans. Many people have the thought process that the value of something needs to be equivalent to what you paid to get it, even when it is clear that is no longer the case.  People will continue to attempt to use it and use it over and over again to try and "recoup" that value.  In reality, the only loss in in your mind--you've already paid the cost for it regardles of how much value you get back from it. If it isn't performing the function you need it to then you get rid of it and go get something that does. You are already spending extra time and money trying to make up for the lack of perfomance of the initial asset, in many cases the smart move is to move on and get a new asset that performs the way you expect.

Edited March 15, 2018 by matter2003

[Mango]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Had they kept Schwartz and promoted him to head coach and hired Roman to coordinate the offense (and made the same personnel decisions on offense which is doubtful unless Roman made most of those decisions) then that 2015 team could have been special even if Mario fell apart on the team (Which might not have happened as rapidly if he was in the right scheme.)

 

They broke apart a top defensive unit in the league with all the pieces in place to implement a new scheme not suited for the talent. They then tried to rebuild it with a fresh draft class and it didn't work. It is unfortunate such an infusion of offensive talent begat such an exedous of defensive talent. 

 

 

Unsure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. 

 

I am just saying, while Whaley had whiffs that draft class regardless of scheme, if I am opening old wounds, I am more annoyed with Pegula and Brandon for forcing a coach on a GM that was so drastically different than what he was acquiring. 

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, Pbomb said:

He did miss 6 games last year and still tied for most sacks on the team

That's more of an indictment of his teammates....

[Shamrock]

7 hours ago, Rico said:

So long, good luck, and goodbye.

 

Nick O'Leary will be last Whaley man standing.

How much does Beane like golf?

[nucci]

8 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I see that the Bills have signed a guy named Trent Murphy.  based on the big contract they gave him, it means that the former #1 draft pick Shaquille Lawson is probably not going to be playing much DE.  It really makes me wonder why, he was the #1 pick overall and should be starting.  Why was he ever drafted in the first place?  I mean he was a 4-3 DE that was drafted in Rex Ryan’s 3-4, yet he can hardly play in the 4-3?  WTF

 

So so if we signed Trent Murphy to play DE from Washington then what happens with Shaq?  

 

Seeing that that he is classified as AFWDP (Another Failed Whaley Draft Pick) I really think the Bills are going to give him away for peanuts.   Like a 6th or 7th round draft pick

I think it's allowed to have more than 1 player at each position....and it was a Ryan pick.

[Bill_with_it]

9 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I see that the Bills have signed a guy named Trent Murphy.  based on the big contract they gave him, it means that the former #1 draft pick Shaquille Lawson is probably not going to be playing much DE.  It really makes me wonder why, he was the #1 pick overall and should be starting.  Why was he ever drafted in the first place?  I mean he was a 4-3 DE that was drafted in Rex Ryan’s 3-4, yet he can hardly play in the 4-3?  WTF

 

So so if we signed Trent Murphy to play DE from Washington then what happens with Shaq?  

 

Seeing that that he is classified as AFWDP (Another Failed Whaley Draft Pick) I really think the Bills are going to give him away for peanuts.   Like a 6th or 7th round draft pick

Hes still injured. That shoulder isnt the same. Hes still wearing a brace. Its evident thst he was medically busted.

[oldmanfan]

It is OK to have a DE that is strong against the run and that picks up the occasional sack.  We all loved Phil Hansen.

[OldTimer1960]

9 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

He was a first round draft pick.  Nice to see the Bills draft players in the first round to be rotational players.  AFWDP

If you don't understand that every year there are several 1st round draft picks that don't become superstars, then you are not well informed.  No team has been immune to having selected players in round one who turn out to be mediocre or worse.

[richardb1952]

Lawson is solid but certainly not spectacular for a first round pick.  I believe he will be better this year if DTs can hold their own.   He will probably never be a double digit sack person but a 6-8 sack a year DE that is above average against the run with the potential to get better with experience.  He is a little slow off the snap and I am amazed he isn't called for lining up in the neutral zone more.  If he can progress to the point where he can apply more pressure on the QB, I think he will be a good solid, dependable DE for years to come.

[Victory Formation]

Jerry Hughes is 30 in 5 months, let that sink in. NFL stands for Not For Long. Mario Williams hit a brick wall at 30-31.

 

I think by the end of the year it will be Murphy and Lawson starting opposite to each other, at least that's what I think McD wants and hopes will happen. I don't believe for a second we're moving on from Shaq.

[billsfan89]

18 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

Unsure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. 

 

I am just saying, while Whaley had whiffs that draft class regardless of scheme, if I am opening old wounds, I am more annoyed with Pegula and Brandon for forcing a coach on a GM that was so drastically different than what he was acquiring. 

1

 

I think that Whaley no matter what was put in a bad spot with the hiring of Rex. The Bills had a defensive unit perfect for a 4-3 system and they forced in Rex who as good a defense coach as he was simply was jamming a square peg into a round hole. So Whaley tried to draft players (Shaq, Ragland, and Washington) to suit Rex's scheme but Rex was gone one year later. So McD and Beane had decided to switch back to the 4-3 and Whaley's last draft class was out of place.

 

Whaley's drafts from 2013-2015 weren't terrible a lot of players from those draft classes are highly productive players in the league (which proves that they were talented players) sure there were some busts (EJ, Cyrus) but overall I thought they weren't bad not good but not as awful as a lot of people thought. 

[CommonCents]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

It is OK to have a DE that is strong against the run and that picks up the occasional sack.  We all loved Phil Hansen.

A DE that can't get off is a liability in today's NFL. Hansen had double digit sacks on year and 8 or more two other season. Shaq might not get double digit sacks over the course of his entire rookie deal. 

[Chandler#81]

21 hours ago, Rico said:

So long, good luck, and goodbye.

 

Nick O'Leary will be last Whaley man standing.

I said this is another thread, but I haven’t seen this 1 and half season roster purge level since John Rauch purged the AFL Champs. Yet, we made the playoffs after 17 years.(?) I have no clue what these guys are going to do next, but I’m enjoying the ride!

[TigerJ]

Shaq Lawson is not especially twitchy, but he's not a bad DE.  Right now, the Bills have Cap Capi, Ryan Davis, Jerry Hughes, Shaq Lawson, Trent Murphy and Owa Odighizua listed as DEs, and Lorax has been quoted as suggesting he might be more of a pass rusher this coming season.  Eddie Yarborough is a restricted free agent.  I think he may have been tendered, but I'm not sure.   I suspect the Bills hope he'll sign a tender in any case.  That's more defensive ends than the Bills will keep in September.  Obviously, somebody's getting cut.  I don't know that Lawson is especially safe, but I also don't think that the Bills are targeting him for elimination.  What I think is that the Bills want to see plenty of competition, so in training camp all these guys need to work their tails off.

[Hebert19]

I know a lot if folks want him gone but you have to keep a couple things in mind. 

 

1.  He's only 21 games into his career.  One that was put on pause due to his injury in rookie year.  

 

2.  Take his rookie season away and he wasn't exactly surrounded with talent to take pressure off him.  Dareus was loafing around.  Hughes was ok at best.  The rest of our DTs outside of Kyle are back ups at best.   This year he could rotate to be across from Hughes or Murphy and have star and Kyle commanding double team's. 

 

3.  He's in rookie deal worth 2.8M.  That's fairly cheap. 

 

4.  If they keep him and he plays well this year it makes Hughes and his high cap hit expendable or makes him better trade bait.  

 

5.  Against the run he's actually decent. So he would be good to rotate in.

 

Guy tells me he stays and earns a spot and we end up with a great rotation of DEs. 

 

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

12 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Shaq Lawson is not especially twitchy, but he's not a bad DE.  Right now, the Bills have Cap Capi, Ryan Davis, Jerry Hughes, Shaq Lawson, Trent Murphy and Owa Odighizua listed as DEs, and Lorax has been quoted as suggesting he might be more of a pass rusher this coming season.  Eddie Yarborough is a restricted free agent.  I think he may have been tendered, but I'm not sure.   I suspect the Bills hope he'll sign a tender in any case.  That's more defensive ends than the Bills will keep in September.  Obviously, somebody's getting cut.  I don't know that Lawson is especially safe, but I also don't think that the Bills are targeting him for elimination.  What I think is that the Bills want to see plenty of competition, so in training camp all these guys need to work their tails off.

 

 

Odighizua was a street FA.  He's got a chance to earn a spot but he's certainly not inked in.  Capi isn't much different.

 

Hughes / Lawson / Murphy / Davis / Yarborough is some very nice depth at DE and combined make what some teams are spending on one edge rusher alone.