teef Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 i was just wondering if we had some local experts that know how the game is played when you trade a car into a dealer. i know i could get more selling it on my own, but i'm not dealing with that bull ****. that being said, it strikes me that they try to give you lowest possible value that a site like kbb will list. my car is in very good shape, ( i always pick that as the condition when checking online...not the top choice, but second from the best). great features, clean etc. what's my best method for predicting the value, or is there any way to squeeze a bit more money out of a dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If you really want to get the most you can - sell it yourself. Dealers are inevitably going to use KBB or their own data to drive a deal favorable to themselves. Otherwise the deal situation really comes down to you doing your homework. BTW - I think the whole car selling and buying process is crooked and slimy so I am probably not the best person to ask. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, teef said: i was just wondering if we had some local experts that know how the game is played when you trade a car into a dealer. i know i could get more selling it on my own, but i'm not dealing with that bull ****. that being said, it strikes me that they try to give you lowest possible value that a site like kbb will list. my car is in very good shape, ( i always pick that as the condition when checking online...not the top choice, but second from the best). great features, clean etc. what's my best method for predicting the value, or is there any way to squeeze a bit more money out of a dealer? I am no expert but I can comment on a couple things that I have seen. 1) They know you don't want to sell your own car and they use that to their advantage. 2) The make it seem as though you are getting more for your car by offering you more off the price of whatever car you are interested in buying. Which is why in my opnion you are better off not offering a trade in at all and just making the deal on the car. Once the deal is done you can then ask what they would give you if you did decide to trade it in. Then you are getting a more realistic price. In my experience, in that situation, they are going to offer you about 1/2 the price of what they are going to relist the vehicle for on their lot. If they offer you $8,000 they are probably going to relist the car (after detailing it and mechanically replacing whatever needs replacing) for somewhere in the neighborhood of $16,000. I am sure there is a lot of leeway one way or the other depending on the scenario. I am just commenting on what I have seen done personally in the past. Edited March 13, 2018 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Look into the Kelly Blue Book Instant Cash Offer program. My husband used it to get the best trade-in value on his truck last fall. Not all dealerships in the program understand exactly how the program works - it is a no-risk proposition for them as KBB will take the vehicle for the trade-in price listed and sell it at auction or, if the dealership can get more selling it off their lot than the KBB trade-in value, they have that option. He ended up buying his new truck in PA when the locals (who participated in the KBB ICO program) didn't quite get this. He called all around, and let several dealerships (he was not married to a particular new truck, he had three choices from different brands in mind) do the hunting for him, along with the trade-in value, cash back incentives, etc he got an excellent trade-in, plus a low price on his new truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) ****On another note I always thought there was demand in the market for a franchise that sells vehicles on consignment based on average market sale price. They then charge a small percentage commission to the seller and the buyer for facilitating the transaction. Maybe such a place exists? If it does.I am unaware of it. Seems like a superior way to facilitate the exchange of those types of goods. And have the franchise offer a lemon law guarantee that goes back against the original owner. And it would completely eliminate the perception of getting screwed over by a cunning car salesman. Everyone pays average market price determined by the franchise - not the buyer or seller. Edited March 13, 2018 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 awesome input guys. a lot of it is what i expected. i've actually spoken to someone who worked for subaru that i know, and she brought to my attention the kbb deal that buffalo gal mentioned. i'm going to start test driving this weekend, and see if there are any incentives. i like dave's suggestion of making the deal first, and then seeing what the trade in is worth. never thought of that. i even have a second car to trade in, mostly because i never drive it, but i've had two accidents with it, involving the front and back ends. i'm not sure if it's even worth trading in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) My son is a buyer for a major national dealership, one whose name you would immediately recognize. He prices about 50 cars per week for them, and buys just as many. The point is, it is very difficult to go by any simple metric, like KBB, to predict a price. Certain cars in certain markets have odd pricing, but that is the market. If you want the last cent, best bet is to sell it yourself. There is no way that a private buyer is going to have all the info on your vehicle that the pros will, and no way for them to see what a career appraiser will see, and that is much more than Carfax. Additionally, a private seller is not going to stand behind any immediate maintenance issues. A major franchise will, and that liability costs them per vehicle. Edited March 13, 2018 by sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, teef said: i was just wondering if we had some local experts that know how the game is played when you trade a car into a dealer. i know i could get more selling it on my own, but i'm not dealing with that bull ****. that being said, it strikes me that they try to give you lowest possible value that a site like kbb will list. my car is in very good shape, ( i always pick that as the condition when checking online...not the top choice, but second from the best). great features, clean etc. what's my best method for predicting the value, or is there any way to squeeze a bit more money out of a dealer? Miles are a huge factor. Anything 90K and above will get you considerably less. When I bought my current car, I was playing a few dealerships at the same time. My car was a 2009 Jetta with a few minor dings, but mechanically sound. Every dealership offered me the exact same, which was the max they could offer for it ($4000). The max, I believe, is driven by NADA and it truly seemed like they could not exceed it - as none of them would. I found that Edmunds came close to the actual number, but I'd suggest doing Edmunds and KBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 38 minutes ago, PolishDave said: ****On another note I always thought there was demand in the market for a franchise that sells vehicles on consignment based on average market sale price. They then charge a small percentage commission to the seller and the buyer for facilitating the transaction. Maybe such a place exists? If it does.I am unaware of it. Seems like a superior way to facilitate the exchange of those types of goods. And have the franchise offer a lemon law guarantee that goes back against the original owner. And it would completely eliminate the perception of getting screwed over by a cunning car salesman. Everyone pays average market price determined by the franchise - not the buyer or seller. Local Richmond company that just received some venture money..doing very well locally and about to expand ! https://www.carlotz.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: Local Richmond company that just received some venture money..doing very well locally and about to expand ! https://www.carlotz.com/ Outstanding! Buy stock in them when they go public. They will disrupt the industry big time. Hope they come to Buffalo soon. And others based on similar business models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If you want a really easy experience, I just sold my old car to Carvana. Higher value than trade-in (but not private seller), you give them a little info online, they come to your house, give you a check, and take it away. It was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 It always depends. If the deal on the vehicle you're buying is terrific, your trade in deal will suck. If you trade in deal is great, you're going to pay closer to MSRP. Dealerships have a ton of overhead and it takes money to keep the lights on. If you're concerned over a couple of grand, sell it yourself. If the dealership tries to give you an obviously crappy deal, just leave and go somewhere else. NEVER give a dealer more than ONE hour of your time. Tell them up front that you're only going to be there for an hour. When there's 15 minutes left, remind them of your terms. I have NEVER had a problem getting a fair deal done because at the one hour mark, I bolt like I'm on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, teef said: awesome input guys. a lot of it is what i expected. i've actually spoken to someone who worked for subaru that i know, and she brought to my attention the kbb deal that buffalo gal mentioned. i'm going to start test driving this weekend, and see if there are any incentives. i like dave's suggestion of making the deal first, and then seeing what the trade in is worth. never thought of that. i even have a second car to trade in, mostly because i never drive it, but i've had two accidents with it, involving the front and back ends. i'm not sure if it's even worth trading in. One of the reason's my husband looked so far and wide had to do with what the locals were offering who were IN the program. The program stated $30K for his trade-in, but the locals only offered $28K. They didn't seem to understand that it was a no-lose proposition for them - give him $30K, not the $28K you expect at auction as the KBB program will guarantee you get the $30K trade-in value. The PA guys understood this (he actually got more than the $30K). Those OUT of the program were offering $25K! (That was an unusual truck he was trading in, and the KBB program helped set a market price for it as very few had gone to auction.) By casting his dealership-net far and wide, he truly got the best available deal at the moment. This is the second vehicle in a row he bought "online" from out of state (the "unusual truck was purchased in Ohio). Some dealerships will only look up to 250 miles away (the locals) for what you (generic you) want. The PA guys looked 350+miles away and got his (current) truck out of Virginia. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Car dealers, all of them, have a great way of making you think you got a deal! I always remember a sales training class I had a few years back, trainer asked a room of about 40 folks who had bought a car in the last 10 years. Every hand went up. He then asked, who got a good to great deal on said car, every hand went up. What i I have done last couple of cars is understand what I felt my trade in was worth based in research and understand a dealer needs to make money, and a really good idea of the price I was comfortable paying for the new car. Then I just say to the dealer is the all in price For instance, trade in $5k, new car I want for $30k. I tell them I don’t care what price you put on what, I will give you $25K all in, including all garbage processing fees etc, but excluding taxed and tags. I have been been able to get to quick agreement doing that last two times, with no arguing at paperwork over any garbage fees etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Alaska Darin said: NEVER give a dealer more than ONE hour of your time. Tell them up front that you're only going to be there for an hour. When there's 15 minutes left, remind them of your terms. I have NEVER had a problem getting a fair deal done because at the one hour mark, I bolt like I'm on fire. When I bought my current car, I wasn't desperate or in a hurry. Feels a lot different going into a car buying experience like that. There was a 100% chance that the car salesman wanted to sell a car more than I needed to buy one. So - every dealership I walked into, when I started working with a sales guy, the first thing out of my mouth, "I'm not going to bull **** you, so I don't expect you to bull **** me." I walked out of one dealership undecided after talking numbers. I went back the following day to re-open discussions. Lo and behold ... the numbers changed (not to my advantage). I said, "I told you no bull ****. Have a good day," and walked out. When I finally did purchase a vehicle, I did 100% of my negotiating through a chat session online. Best car buying experience ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 4 hours ago, teef said: i was just wondering if we had some local experts that know how the game is played when you trade a car into a dealer. i know i could get more selling it on my own, but i'm not dealing with that bull ****. that being said, it strikes me that they try to give you lowest possible value that a site like kbb will list. my car is in very good shape, ( i always pick that as the condition when checking online...not the top choice, but second from the best). great features, clean etc. what's my best method for predicting the value, or is there any way to squeeze a bit more money out of a dealer? How old are your kids now? Maybe put it into storage...be a kick ass birthday gift when the oldest hits 16.That's what we did for our nug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 What kind of cars do you have that you're looking to get rid of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Gugny said: Miles are a huge factor. Anything 90K and above will get you considerably less. When I bought my current car, I was playing a few dealerships at the same time. My car was a 2009 Jetta with a few minor dings, but mechanically sound. Every dealership offered me the exact same, which was the max they could offer for it ($4000). The max, I believe, is driven by NADA and it truly seemed like they could not exceed it - as none of them would. I found that Edmunds came close to the actual number, but I'd suggest doing Edmunds and KBB. i'm not quite at 80,000. the car is acting quirky, so it's my time to bail. that's good to know about the similar offers. it happened to my dad too. he has a corvette, and actually won a corvette. he decided to sell one off, went to three different places, and they were all almost the exact same. it's good to know that you got the top end of the offer. i'll have to see if i will. 12 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: How old are your kids now? Maybe put it into storage...be a kick ass birthday gift when the oldest hits 16.That's what we did for our nug. my daughter will be 3 in june, and we have a son being born in late may. i'm doing the kid thing later in life. i'm tired a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I just traded in my ‘09 Subaru Impreza a few weeks ago. Toyota/Subaru salesman friend of mine told me that they typically stick to plus or minus $1000 of the KBB value depending on how badly they want to move the vehicle. My Impreza was in pretty good condition, and had only 93,000 miles. When I entered all the info into KBB it game me a trade in value range of 2400-3200. When they offered me 3850 for my car I was very pleased. The car I picked must have been on the lot for a while, because they actually lowered the sticker price from the time I test drove it to the time we sat down and negotiated a price. I ended up getting 750 more off the price of my new car, plus they agreed to re-paint the hood as part of he deal (had 3 or 4 good sized chips in it). I think I made out pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 also, do anyone find there's not a ton of wiggle room in negotiations now? we know what the dealer paid, and their general markup, (they obviously need to make a profit). they can work with you on trade in value, there may be incentives involved, then after that, maybe a small percentage of the price of the car can be negotiated. i've been to a couple of dealers in the past who say that's all they'll give. that being said, i've gotten large factory incentives just by luck in the past. one was 8 grand off the sticker price, just to get the car off the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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