Virgil Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) I completely recognize the great job that Keenum, Foles, and Bradford did this past year. I mean, Foles just beat the Patriots in the Superbowl. However, I can't let go of the fact that none of these guys were wanted by any team going into this year. Foles was considering retirement. Bradford was a starter of need after being discarded by the Eagles. And Keenum was also a Texans cast off. All of these guys were given multiple opportunities to start for different teams and could never hold on to the job. So the question is, what's more likely: Did they all of a sudden become quality QB's or were they on strong overall teams where they were almost plug and play? I think these guys all made some great plays in the playoffs and stepped up, but do the last 6 weeks of play offset the rest of their careers? For me, I don't want to give any of these guys the 15-20 mil for 3-5 years they are going to want as I don't think any of them are going to want their standard "journeyman" deals. Yes, I know that Foles would need to be acquired via trade. Overall, besides Cousins, I would rather find my QB via the draft and either keep TT or find another true journeyman. I'd honestly bring back Fitz for the right price. I'm overall worried about letting 6 weeks of performance and a QB Priority league make us overcommit to someone financially who isn't going to give us a huge return on the investment. I'd rather do what the Eagles, Rams, and Vikings did and build the solid team everywhere else, which allows a young/mediocre QB to thrive. Edited March 7, 2018 by Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) I'm also skeptical about spending much to acquire these guys. Nick Foles was fantastic back in 2013 when Chip Kelly's offense was new to the league. After a year of film and defenses adjusting accordingly, his play dropped off. Big time. So much so, the Eagles were willing to trade him away. Once on the Rams, Foles struggled so badly, he was immediately cut and even considered retiring from football. Winning a Super Bowl this season boosted Foles' resume. Now half the league thinks he's worth a 1st or 2nd Round Pick. But in reality, we are talking about 6 total starts in 2017... and his 4 of those games were just OK. Are you willing to part with a high draft pick for what equates to two good games (the Minnesota and New England playoff games)? Sam Bradford has often played like a Top 10-15 NFL quarterback. But the guy cannot stay healthy. In 8 seasons, Bradford has played 16 games only twice. Last year, he lasted a total of ONE GAME before going down yet again. He's always getting hurt and now he's 30 years old. At some point, you have to realize it's not just bad luck. Bradford is brittle. Case Keenum had a really good season last year. But where was he before that? He was a marginal NFL backup for 5 seasons, then suddenly broke out when Pat Shurmur got a hold of him. Is he a one-year wonder? Or was this a legitimate breakout season? If I was a betting man, my guess is that Keenum will sign for good money and struggle to duplicate his success next season. Teddy Bridgewater was ridiculously overrated, even before the injury. If someone could please explain what Bridgewater did good in his first two seasons, I would love to hear it. And that was before he totally destroyed his leg and almost ended his career. There is a pretty good chance he will settle for a "prove-it" deal, so he may come cheap. But in my opinion, he wasn't playing much better than a low-level starter before. I don't think you can expect much more now. Edited March 7, 2018 by mjt328 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) I agree, Virgil. The vets you cited remind me of the Cassel situation - he had a good year in NE so KC spent a pick and a massive chunk of their salary cap, only to find that he was a "system" QB. I'd rather draft a guy and get a decent vet on the cheap. (And maybe that is Keenum or Bradford, assuming someone else doesn't offer more.) And while some might laugh at the prospect of bringing back Fitz to mentor a rookie, I'd actually prefer him in that role rather than Tyrod. Edited March 7, 2018 by WhoTom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 possibly they can't find a dance partner that's interested in letting us trade up in the draft and they know they aren't going to get the guy they want. So using Tyrod as. a safety blanket until they can obtain a better stop gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuru4 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I think a second is too much for foles. Im also not high on bradford or bridgewater due to injury concerns. Keenum and foles have failed plenty of times before this year. Id be ok with mccaron for cheap and drafting a qb. Trade tyrod and have an open competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp2Warlick Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BillsGuru4 said: I think a second is too much for foles. Im also not high on bradford or bridgewater due to injury concerns. Keenum and foles have failed plenty of times before this year. Id be ok with mccaron for cheap and drafting a qb. Trade tyrod and have an open competition. "I think a second is too much for foles"....SB mvp...lol...laughable. Edited March 7, 2018 by Kemp2Warlick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) The thing about the Free Agency QBs is, while there is a ton of them out there each one stands to flop HARD this coming season. And teams are absolutely going to do what happens every year in Free Agency and way over pay. Bradford is made of glass and there's a report that knee of his is degenerative. He is good when available, but how much will he be available? Keenum had a career year, but was that just a one year wonder? My gut tells me yes. He's the guy I would take the risk on as a bridge as long as there's a free out in the second year. Bridgewater I really liked coming out of college. Never really developed the way I thought he would...even before the knee. Bottom line is he's 24 and being let go by a team that's a QB away from constant contention. That says a lot to me about his health/development. McCown is old and gets hurt at a Bradfordian pace. I hear he is really good in the QB though and he was actually offered the Browns QB coach spit last year before signing with the Jets. I can see McDermott liking him. Glennon is terrible. And now the Foles debate. Foles has had an up and down career to say the least. He's not as bad as he has looked but nowhere near as good as he looked in the Super Bowl run. If he was a true free agent I would bring him in. But I think you can get the same (or close to) productivity out of Keenum and save the 2nd rounder or more it takes to get Foles. Edited March 7, 2018 by KelsaysLunchbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuru4 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, Kemp2Warlick said: "I think a second is too much for foles"....SB mvp...lol...laughable. 2 good seasons, 4 bad. He was going to retire before the Eagles convinced him to ride the pine behind a stud top pick. Matt Castle looked good with the pats too, foles reminds me more of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Cousin Keenum McCarron I think those three change the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 You’re probably right. Let’s spend two first round picks to draft a kid who’s never done ANYTHING as a professional quarterback over spending a single second round pick on a guy who just WON THE SUPERBOWL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You’re probably right. Let’s spend two first round picks to draft a kid who’s never done ANYTHING as a professional quarterback over spending a single second round pick on a guy who just WON THE SUPERBOWL! The OP didn't say anything about spending two first-round picks. Maybe the guy they like is still available at 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, WhoTom said: The OP didn't say anything about spending two first-round picks. Maybe the guy they like is still available at 21. And this mystery 21st puck has played in how many NFL games? Oh yeah....none! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: And this mystery 21st puck has played in how many NFL games? Oh yeah....none! By that logic one should never draft a QB. We know Foles played well last year, but that's not a guarantee of future success, especially given his checkered past. I actually wouldn't mind spending a 2nd round pick to get him, but last I heard, the Eagles are asking for at least a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: By that logic one should never draft a QB. We know Foles played well last year, but that's not a guarantee of future success, especially given his checkered past. I actually wouldn't mind spending a 2nd round pick to get him, but last I heard, the Eagles are asking for at least a first. With all due respect that's not the logic at all. The GOAL is to get a starting QB...by any means you can, whether through the draft or not. There are many successful NFL Teams who didn't whose starting QB's were not acquired through the draft and a few have won the Super Bowl in recent years. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: You’re probably right. Let’s spend two first round picks to draft a kid who’s never done ANYTHING as a professional quarterback over spending a single second round pick on a guy who just WON THE SUPERBOWL! Like I said, he played great in the playoffs. I’m not taking that away from him. But are the last 6 games a representation of who he is as a QB or is his entire career. Also, they said they aren’t trading him for only a second. Of all the FA QB’s, I like Foles the most. His time under Fisher is hard to judge, but he was also left the Eagles for a reason the first time. I like his age, but is up for a new contract next year. What if we can get him for a second and he has a decent, not great year? Are you going to give him the 20+ mil a year he’ll command? There’s a lot of “if’s” and unknowns with him and a lot to give up for that. I’d be happier staying put with our picks and sign him as a FA next year. Build a strong team and then see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 ...wouldn't most of the perceived "QB UFA hotties" be looking for longer term deals in 3-5+ years with major guaranteed money for financial security?.....if so and if McBeane's formula is to draft a future #1 starter, why would he want his pick to sit behind a longer term vet?.....makes no sense........my unsubstantiated guess would be a two year vet with an "easy out contract" for year 2 if your draft pick develops quickly an Peterman shows viability as a decent backup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, Virgil said: Like I said, he played great in the playoffs. I’m not taking that away from him. But are the last 6 games a representation of who he is as a QB or is his entire career. Also, they said they aren’t trading him for only a second. Of all the FA QB’s, I like Foles the most. His time under Fisher is hard to judge, but he was also left the Eagles for a reason the first time. I like his age, but is up for a new contract next year. What if we can get him for a second and he has a decent, not great year? Are you going to give him the 20+ mil a year he’ll command? There’s a lot of “if’s” and unknowns with him and a lot to give up for that. I’d be happier staying put with our picks and sign him as a FA next year. Build a strong team and then see what happens. Virgil...the same can be said and more about ALL of the rookies. Allen played in the minor leagues. Rosen couldn't even win his conference. Darnold turned the ball over more times than I can count. etc, etc. and all of that was against college level competition. None of these kids even won a championship, did they? So yes, I'd prefer a professional who may actually be peaking at the right time, over a rookie that is a total crap shoot at best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Virgil...the same can be said and more about ALL of the rookies. Allen played in the minor leagues. Rosen couldn't even win his conference. Darnold turned the ball over more times than I can count. etc, etc. and all of that was against college level competition. None of these kids even won a championship, did they? So yes, I'd prefer a professional who may actually be peaking at the right time, over a rookie that is a total crap shoot at best! Yes, both are a crap shoot, I agree. But if Foles was the QB you think he is, why was he contemplating retirement before last season and without a job? Why aren’t people jumping at the chance at giving up a 1st rounder? I trust the football people to know their job. Yes though, if you could promise me Playoff Foles, I would give up a first for him without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Foles had 3 seasons with a completion percentage under 60 and 1 with 60.8. I wouldn't give up a lot for him. Patricia was daydreaming about his new HC job instead of preparing for the Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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