Hits and Misses: How Successful Was GM Russ Brandon In The Draft?...REVISED

[May Day 10]

I'm just glad that this conversation isn't relevant any more in the present time.... only to untangle what happened in the past.  What a miserable experience as a fan.

 

 

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

If a team gets a solid solid starter or a reliable sub or rotational player out of any guy drafted on Day 3 (Rounds 4-7) that's a bonus not "a miss" IMO.  It's virtually impossible for Day 3 guys to "bust" because the ceiling for Day 3 players is probably ST player.   Most Day 3 guys don't make it out of preseason unless they can play ST or win a slot on a practice squad.  Corner was a "hit".

 

 

 

[Watkins90]

He was only GM for one year?

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It's straight up weird how many Bills fans don't understand that Ralph Wilson was a horrible owner and by far the biggest cause of decades of failure.

 

Ralph Wilson was a great owner in his own way. He loved the Buffalo fans and knew he had to keep ticket prices low so they could afford to go to NFL games in Buffalo.

 

Wilson was a very shrewd businessman who was also a very frugal and cantankerous owner who needed to keep the Buffalo Bills profitable in order to retain ownership. There were times over the course of the team's history where Wilson was almost forced to sell all or part of the team or move the team like Browns owner Art Modell was forced to do. His close friend Al Davis was forced to sell part of the Raiders as were other owners.

 

One of those times were in the late 70s in which the team couldn't have home preseason games because the team was so bad the fans wouldn't attend. 1976, (2-12).1977 (3-11) Bills fans wouldn't attend games and season ticket sales were at their lowest in the team's history.

The team hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins the entire decade of the 1970s. The Love canal, jobs leaving Buffalo as the steel mills shut down. The air was bad due to the mills, the weather. Buffalo was a tough place to live as even the national media would make fun of the city.  Wilson was worried he would be forced to sell or move. 

 

In 1978, Wilson, a notoriously frugal owner went out and hired ex-Rams HC Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. The team was in the playoffs within two seasons and the stands were filled again. After 1982 Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle where he soon took them to the playoffs. 

 

1984, 1985 saw the team back to back 2-14 seasons and fans in the stands with bags on their heads and again Wilson was facing a desperate situation. Luckily, the Bills GM suffered an unfortunate injury was replaced by Bill Polian who prompted Wilson to make Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The pendulum swung the other way and the fans were back in the seats. 

 

Sadly, in his later years, it seemed like Wilson was content with a mediocre team as long as it kept making a profit. After all, he had other hobbies like collecting fine art, racing horses and tennis. It looked like as long as the team was profitable and fans were in the seats there was no real incentive to hire the best and brightest coaches or build another winning program. 

 

Be grateful the franchise now has some new owners that are billionaires who are more concerned with winning over profitability. 

 

 

[May Day 10]

16 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Ralph Wilson was a great owner in his own way. He loved the Buffalo fans and knew he had to keep ticket prices low so they could afford to go to NFL games in Buffalo.

 

Wilson was a very shrewd businessman who was also a very frugal and cantankerous owner who needed to keep the Buffalo Bills profitable in order to retain ownership. There were times over the course of the team's history where Wilson was almost forced to sell all or part of the team or move the team like Browns owner Art Modell was forced to do. His close friend Al Davis was forced to sell part of the Raiders as were other owners.

 

One of those times were in the late 70s in which the team couldn't have home preseason games because the team was so bad the fans wouldn't attend. 1976, (2-12).1977 (3-11) Bills fans wouldn't attend games and season ticket sales were at their lowest in the team's history.

The team hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins the entire decade of the 1970s. The Love canal, jobs leaving Buffalo as the steel mills shut down. The air was bad due to the mills, the weather. Buffalo was a tough place to live as even the national media would make fun of the city.  Wilson was worried he would be forced to sell or move. 

 

In 1978, Wilson, a notoriously frugal owner went out and hired ex-Rams HC Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. The team was in the playoffs within two seasons and the stands were filled again. After 1982 Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle where he soon took them to the playoffs. 

 

1984, 1985 saw the team back to back 2-14 seasons and fans in the stands with bags on their heads and again Wilson was facing a desperate situation. Luckily, the Bills GM suffered an unfortunate injury was replaced by Bill Polian who prompted Wilson to make Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. The pendulum swung the other way and the fans were back in the seats. 

 

Sadly, in his later years, it seemed like Wilson was content with a mediocre team as long as it kept making a profit. After all, he had other hobbies like collecting fine art, racing horses and tennis. It looked like as long as the team was profitable and fans were in the seats there was no real incentive to hire the best and brightest coaches or build another winning program. 

 

Be grateful the franchise now has some new owners that are billionaires who are more concerned with winning over profitability. 

 

 

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

Edited February 22, 2018 by May Day 10

[John from Riverside]

You have to hit on your players you select in the 1st 3 rounds

 

it is great to find late round steals....but you biuld your team around your premium picks.

 

That is why Bean's 1st draft is a "In progress grade" if Zay Jones would have done well it would have been a slam dunk A

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

They might it is true.... but Wilson and Brandon put a number of things in place to make the Bills less attractive as a prospect to someone whose priority was move the team. 

 

Now had we not had buyers with local ties in the Pegulas that might not have been enough because a relocation buyer would have been able to drive the price down accordingly, but Wilson and Brandon did make it less attractive to relocation buyers and every little helps. 

[2003Contenders]

I am in no way defending Russ as it relates to football decisions he was a part of... However, guys in the know back then told me that even though he was the de facto GM in 2008/2009, Russ pretty much left all of the heavy lifting in the drafts to Tom Modrak.

 

Modrak did not especially like the limelight and preferred staying down in Florida, as opposed to Brandon who was a Buffalo guy through-and-through and loved getting all the attention he could get. I am told that Brandon's involvement in day-to-day operations, scouting, the draft, etc. has always been over-stated. While Russ was willing to serve as the face of the franchise back them he relied on Modrak to handle the scouting and run the War Room at draft time. In fact, the 2008 draft in particular was all Modrak (he LOVED Leodis).

 

Dick Jauron reportedly had a greater say in the 2009 draft, and it was Jauron who was allowed to overrule Modrak on that first round pick of Maybin (Jauron REALLY wanted an "edge rusher") over the guy that Modrak wanted (Brian Cushing) with the 11th overall pick (not the 9th as I misstated above).  Modrak was so incensed about this that he wasted little time leaking his preference for Cushing to the press the next day.

 

Still, Russ deserves the blame for allowing these things to happen under his watch. Also under his watch:

 

1. Low-balling and then trading Jason Peters

2. Signing Fitz to an inflated contract at a time when Fitz was on a hot streak -- and believing that Fitz was the "answer"

3. Extending Dick Jauron's contract

 

I am so glad that Russ has been relegated to doing what he does best: team marketing.

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

You have to hit on your players you select in the 1st 3 rounds

 

it is great to find late round steals....but you biuld your team around your premium picks.

 

That is why Bean's 1st draft is a "In progress grade" if Zay Jones would have done well it would have been a slam dunk A

 

It wasn’t beanes, and no one is consistently hitting 3 of 3. Otherwise, sure.

 

if you hit 3 of 3 a couple of times (especially with a qb) you immediately shoot to Super Bowl favorite 

[Rico]

4 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

His clown shot in the thread OP always makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. 

17 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

Don’t forget when he talked about moving the Bills to Seattle.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1971/01/13/archives/bills-exploring-move-to-seattle-owner-wants-new-stadium-to-keep.html

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

20 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Again  that’s speculation.  That’s all rumor and innuendo.  Find me documentation that shows Marv and Russ did not make draft picks.  Then we’ll talk.  All that has been published is rumor and innuendo...no facts

 

 

Well can just as easily say, show me the proof that Russ and Marv made the picks?

[Nihilarian]

21 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

On one hand, I'm grateful for Wilson and recognize him as being 'the father of the Bills'.  I am glad for Pegula and the team staying. 

 

However, the team went through about 57 years of terrible ownership with a couple perfect storm blips of success.  MAYBE Pegula finally got it right with McBeane... but we will see, a lot to do there (Im optimistic). 

 

Wilson never really seemed 'all in' on Buffalo and since I can remember (early mid 80s), there was always a shroud of a threat of relocation, and Wilson never put us at ease.  In fact, you can argue that with the original Rogers deal for Toronto games, the wheels were put into motion for a Rogers purchase/relocation (however he passed away and his family became dysfunctional and they spent a trillion dollars on NHL rights).  Without Terry Pegula, the Bills would likely be a lame duck right now, destined for Toronto, LA, or Vegas.

 

To be honest, if we had a 50 year old Ralph Wilson as owner of the Bills, I would find another team or something else to do.

The thing is Ralph Wilson had a choice to have his team in Miami or Buffalo and he chose us. He also had many offers to sell the team and move to different cities especially in difficult times and he said no! 

 

Jon Bon Jovi had heard RW wasn't that well in 2013 and wanted to buy the club then. RW said NO!. I'm not 100% sure but I think he left an edict with Brandon that after he passed away to not sell the team to anyone who had intentions of moving the team. The man had his faults but he also had great virtue and that was loyalty to Buffalo and the fans here. 

 

When the Buffalo Bills went to a super bowl the very frugal owner paid for every Buffalo Bills employee to attend...loyalty.

 

The Buffalo Bills did win two AFL Championships before the merger and it could be the reason he didn't push harder to win a super bowl. 

[John from Riverside]

37 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

It wasn’t beanes, and no one is consistently hitting 3 of 3. Otherwise, sure.

 

if you hit 3 of 3 a couple of times (especially with a qb) you immediately shoot to Super Bowl favorite 

I should clarify my word consistently.....by that I dont mean every year.....but more years then you miss.

 

To me a major problem is 1st round picks busting.....that really hurts both financially, committment to the player wise, and the whole "what if" thing had you selected another player.

[May Day 10]

27 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The thing is Ralph Wilson had a choice to have his team in Miami or Buffalo and he chose us. He also had many offers to sell the team and move to different cities especially in difficult times and he said no! 

 

Jon Bon Jovi had heard RW wasn't that well in 2013 and wanted to buy the club then. RW said NO!. I'm not 100% sure but I think he left an edict with Brandon that after he passed away to not sell the team to anyone who had intentions of moving the team. The man had his faults but he also had great virtue and that was loyalty to Buffalo and the fans here. 

 

When the Buffalo Bills went to a super bowl the very frugal owner paid for every Buffalo Bills employee to attend...loyalty.

 

The Buffalo Bills did win two AFL Championships before the merger and it could be the reason he didn't push harder to win a super bowl. 

 

Legally, the trust were to sell the Bills to the highest bidder.  What Wilson "told" Russ Brandon had nothing to do with it, and Russ Brandon was virtually powerless in the process to select a preferred buyer

 

Ralph Wilson didnt sell the team in his later years because he and his heirs would be double-taxed, costing hundreds of Millions of dollars.  

 

Wilson also intended on Miami, but hit some roadblocks and then (with the urging of a local guy, forget his name) went with Buffalo.  He didnt choose Buffalo over Miami, necessarily.

 

He did have a charm with him and treated his full time employees well.  I agree there.  Chocolate footballs, Christmas bonuses, good benefits and all.

 

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They might it is true.... but Wilson and Brandon put a number of things in place to make the Bills less attractive as a prospect to someone whose priority was move the team. 

 

Now had we not had buyers with local ties in the Pegulas that might not have been enough because a relocation buyer would have been able to drive the price down accordingly, but Wilson and Brandon did make it less attractive to relocation buyers and every little helps. 

 

That side of negotiations was on the county.  Ultimately, Wilson signed off on it, but it is on the County and State push for stronger Non Relocation terms.  If the team wanted to be secure here, the County and State would have been pleased to make it much stronger and longer in length.

 

Also, if the timing didnt go down the way it did, it could have been a different story.  Mr Wilson passed away before the paint was dry on the renovations...  If Wilson passed before the agreement was signed, or if he held on 2-4 more years, it would be a different story, especially without Pegula or his interest. 

 

 

I'm cornered into pooping on Ralph Wilson, and I really don't want to do that because I have no ill will at this point and appreciate the Bills as his "creation".  The reality/result is they have been here for 58 years and are staying.  I now try to avoid going this deep into this stuff as it is no longer relevant.

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by May Day 10

[Steve O]

19 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

I feel like Hardy was the consensus #2 pick around here.  Just looked back at that whole draft, what a clunker.

Was hoping to take him in the first but was psyched when McKelvin fell to us (most mocks had him going 5-10) and then got Hardy in the second. If memory serves no WR's went in the first...didn't check draft history to confirm though.

 

Ok, just checked. No WR's in the first but 10 went in the second. But yea what a bad draft.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Steve O

[Jay_Fixit]

5 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Russ Brandon makes me sick every time I see a picture of him.

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[teef]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

since you live in idaho, i bet you still have a tube tv.

[NoSaint]

48 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I should clarify my word consistently.....by that I dont mean every year.....but more years then you miss.

 

To me a major problem is 1st round picks busting.....that really hurts both financially, committment to the player wise, and the whole "what if" thing had you selected another player.

 

It really isn’t that big of a financial hit. We are talking a range of 2-6m per year and a 4 year deal. 

 

In a projected 178m cap.... thats not substantial. The opportunity cost sucks. 

 

And no one is hitting their top three picks more often than not. Hitting all three is a banner year not the expectation

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

"well give you half that"

 

"ok buffalos out"

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Whenever I watch Draft Day, I pause the scene where Russ acts all tough and I throw an orange at my screen.

 

I spend a lot of money on TV’s.

Thanks, that looked like a crappy movie, I’m really glad now that I never watched it.