K-9 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, BakersBills said: I wasn't comparing his income to the average joe, I'm comparing it to other nfl owners. compared to other owners he was broke. his main source of income WAS the bills. Not oil, not tech, not mac and cheese. Mac and cheese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, K-9 said: Mac and cheese? Kraft dinner. A college staple. Edited February 23, 2018 by RememberTheRockpile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, RememberTheRockpile said: Kraft dinner. A college staple. Not the same Kraft, but I should have gotten the joke. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Basically, the Bills wouldn't pay out bonuses over the lifetime of a contract instead of opting to pay all or most in the first year of a contract. So the Bills could never manipulate the cap during Ralph's tenure. Although Donoughe was able to get good free agents (Fletcher, Spikes, Sam Adams, Troy Vincent, Milloy, etc) in a fairly short period of time but then in the Jauron era free agents were few and far between (Dockery being the only major free agent from 2005-2010 that I can think of.) Mario and a few others were brought in via free agency in the last few years cash to cap was implemented but it always seemed like the Bills had massive cap space year to year but hardly ever were players in free agency and let some of their own free agents go. At least now the Bills actions in free agency make sense to how their cap situation is and they can be on an even playing field with the rest of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 11 hours ago, BakersBills said: I wasn't comparing his income to the average joe, I'm comparing it to other nfl owners. compared to other owners he was broke. his main source of income WAS the bills. Not oil, not tech, not mac and cheese. Link to to breakdown of the income from Ralph’s group of companies showing that the Bills drove the bulk of,the profits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 You know how in the Olden days men slept at night in gowns and night caps like Ebenezer Scrooge? Ralph like to put cash in his night cap before turning in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersBills Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 hours ago, prissythecat said: Link to to breakdown of the income from Ralph’s group of companies showing that the Bills drove the bulk of,the profits? google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 18 hours ago, BakersBills said: google So in in other words you made it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersBills Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 4:47 AM, prissythecat said: So in in other words you made it up. just dont care to do work for someone with their head up their ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) On 2/21/2018 at 2:42 PM, BuffaloRush said: Ok thank you. So by paying the singing bonus all at once, did this hurt the team? Anytime you limit your options you run the risk of hurting the team. But at the time, more than half the teams in the NFL were running cash to cap systems. It wasn't a big deal. CBA Fan explained it best, above. Signing bonuses were amortized normally. But they didn't write any more checks that year, for all player outlays (signing bonuses, roster bonuses, incentives and salaries) than a total of whatever the cap was that year. Their actual cash outlays were never higher than the cap. Cash to cap. Smoothed out the accounting ups and downs for the organization itself. Made it much less likely they'd ever get in cap jail either the way the team looked at it, or the way the NFL looked at it. Several people above are saying that they wouldn't give normal signing bonuses that were amortized. That's a bit misleading. They were normal deals. The NFL, in constructing their salary cap situation figures for each team, looked at them the way they looked at any signing bonus, as amortized across the years of the contract. Of course, the Bills kept charts on that as well, since the NFL is the ref of the salary cap system. But teams that ran cash to cap never had cap problems with the league, their decision process rewarded decisions that kept the NFL figure low. But through a cash to cap lens, a $20 million signing bonus, since it was a cash outlay, was put down by the Bills as all against this year's cash outlay. So they would subtract $20 mill from the amount of cash that they would outlay for the rest of that year. Edited February 27, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/23/2018 at 9:24 AM, BakersBills said: I wasn't comparing his income to the average joe, I'm comparing it to other nfl owners. compared to other owners he was broke. his main source of income WAS the bills. Not oil, not tech, not mac and cheese. Compared with nobody was he broke. Compared with other owners he was less stratospherically wealthy. But that was related largely to macro-economic reasons, the U.S. economy, the large number of tech billionaires in the last 20 - 30 years, inflation rates, etc. The industries he made his fortune in also did not have a lot of billionaires come out of them. Yeah, the wild explosion in the value of teams accounted for most of his wealth. But he started out by doing very very well in a variety of areas, oil and gas, insurance, even trucking and concrete paving. He was simply an excellent business man, a guy who knew how to run businesses so they would make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 13 hours ago, BakersBills said: just dont care to do work for someone with their head up their ass Nice language. I am not sure that you realize that Ralph's companies were private. So there would not be any widely available info on their finances that would be found via Google. So tell me again how do you know that the Bills were the main money maker for Ralph? Calling people names on an internet board does nothing to prove your credibility. It just makes you seem like an arse who likes to spew nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 9:14 AM, GunnerBill said: Exactly. Every penny you pay a guy the day he signs eventually has to be accounted for..... but it doesn't all have to be accounted for on that year's cap. It does on the company balance sheet.... but not on the cap. Agree totally on scouting and coaching spend. We spent too long with dregs at many coaching and personnel spots. Those areas are uncapped spend. Look at the staff Brandon Beane has been able to assemble. At the point he first put the staff together he hired 2 guys who had GM interviews that same hiring cycle (one of whom has since departed to be a GM), another guy who has interviewed for the Carolina job this year, a former GM in Dennis Hickey and a guy taking a demotion from a Director of College Scouting to National Scout to join the Bills. It was pretty close to an all-star staff in many ways. Nothing like the cast of nomads and nobodies we made do with for much of the Ralph era. 100% agree. Ralph was loved by the players and I remember the one drought offseason he spent like 70 mil on Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker to try and upgrade on line. After Donahoe though he became really cheap for front office and I think that experience hurt him. He tried to fix that later on with Buddy Nix and going after Bill Cowher but he was too old and the reputation/instability of the team long term made it a very tough hire. This is why I give Russ Brandon an enormous amount of credit for the work he did to stabilize things so when the team was sold it had a firm base regionally and Marrone wasn't a bad hire at all in retrospect compared to Jaruon or Gailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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