OldTimer1960 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: I don’t care what anyone tries to sell me, it’s alarming that an entire conference (Big 12) hasn’t produced a successful pro QB in years. Really, there haven’t been that many successful QBs coming out of college including all conferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: and what is exactly the definition of "timely" here at TBD?......minis?.....OTA's?....TC?......a woeful pre-season outing?........can't go much beyond THAT if you want "timely" here...Welcome Draftee.......or stay in school.......... Can't speak for anyone else Can say that for me, the Bills big problem has been hanging onto guys who show real problems, and insufficient flashes, for 3-4 years. You shouldn't throw them out the door until you have someone better, but you should make serious attempts to find someone better. 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Were you watching a tape of Tyrod Taylor? Because Hammer meet nail. Um, have you watched Mason Rudolph? He is no way like Tyrod Taylor as a QB, not at all, and certainly nothing like what T-mobile was in college. Lamar Jackson maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Hey, thanks for that link to 716's scouting report of Rudolph. I haven't seen that. In this draft there are 2 QBs I'd like to trade up for: Mayfield & Darnold. 2 QBs I'd like to draft if we don't trade up: Rudolph and Jackson, the latter of whom I've warmed up to. 1 QB I'm just not even thinking about because, despite the rumors, I don't really think he's on our radar: Rosen. And please don't draft Allen!!! thanks for this. i am almost certain now that Rosen is the one they are after. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...nice assessment.....objective, honest and accurate.........the kid was a 5th round pick....a damn FIFTH ROUNDER!.......what the hell is the LOGICAL expectation of a 5th?.....early on, the kid has shown some promise with the mental aspect of the game, a trait required for success with the speed and complexity of the game at the NFL level.....but of course the TBD "One & Done Gang" saw enough with his extensive body of work ala minis, OTA's, TC, scant pre-season work, a disastrous start as well as some mop up duty to earn the BUST label...my day care teacher said the SAME thing....with this gang rolling out the pigeon stained WELCOME MAT, I'd bet Rudolph can't wait to get here.....if these clowns are my judge and jury, I'd stay in school for THREE PhD degrees.....WTF?.... The "logical expectation" for a fifth round QB is a possible backup. Plain and simple. Peterman fell to the fifth round because he doesn't have a good enough arm to be a quality NFL starter. He doesn't appear to have the "football intelligence", especially good judgement, that was supposed to make him an adequate NFL backup, either. Now, maybe part of his poor showing in 2017 can be laid at the feet of the Bills coaching staff who didn't prepare him well, but Peterman failed when given the opportunity, however brief. If the Bills draft a QB in 2018, my guess is that Peterman is history. 29 minutes ago, H2o said: I am not blaspheming sir Andy by any means I am saying that I believe Andy Dalton type is Rudolph's ceiling. That's the best I could see him being. My expectation for Rudolph is that he's not going to end up being that good. Dalton is better than 3 of the 4 QBs taken ahead of him (Griffin, Gabbert, and Ponder). With the right support around him, he can do pretty well ... and for a second round pick, Cinci didn't pay too much for him. If the Bills took Rudolph at 21 or 22 and got as good a QB as Dalton, that wouldn't be terrible ... unless they passed on the next Drew Brees or Russell Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 54 minutes ago, Foxx said: thanks for this. i am almost certain now that Rosen is the one they are after. Bwahahahaha!!! Just so long as it's not Allen! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Um, have you watched Mason Rudolph? He is no way like Tyrod Taylor as a QB, not at all, and certainly nothing like what T-mobile was in college. Lamar Jackson maybe. 3, 4 and 5 seemed similar and no I don’t watch college football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Lfod said: I missed all the links and tweets about people donating to Tyrod's charity. I spaced out there for a minute. Ah, -you mean "The foundation for slow eyes" -Their phones rang off the hook, but donors hung up after holding for too damn long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I'd take him over Baker Mayfield any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I'd take him over Baker Mayfield any day. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: 3, 4 and 5 seemed similar and no I don’t watch college football. Understood, I don't watch much myself, but I've been looking at QB. The guy draft who is most Tyrod-like is Lamar Jackson. Mayfield, in the film I've watched, has shadows of Tyrod IMO - I stop the film and see what look like open WR running downfield but he squirts out of the pocket and uses his feet. I don't know if we can see them but they're blocked from his view by the linemen? which would sound like... I don't see Tyrod in Mason Rudolph. He's more the physical prototype of the pocket passer and it's a good thing because while he can make plays with his feet, IMHO he runs like a busted mower in high grass. He gets the job done but no one would confuse him with an RB Estelle sees him as flushing out of the pocket. I see him stepping up. Read Buffalo716 QB Film Room in the college football forum for a more knowledgeable take. The one-read thing applies to both Rudolph and Mayfield IMO - and Darnold - it's the offense they're playing in to my understanding. Rudolph did play under center a bit, but they're all spread offense or air-raid offense guys. 33 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I'd take him over Baker Mayfield any day. I have the same question as TBF "why"? Edited February 18, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: After seeing and hearing the rumblings that the Bills will take Rudolph if he is there at 21 I decided to watch some of his tape. Im no pro scout but this is what stood out to me. 1. He is in the typical dumbed down type of collge offense that Beane said he is trying to avoid. Didn't see any passes from under center. 2. He locks on to one reciever. He depends on his primary reciever to get open as he will stare them down for multiple seconds without so much as turning his head. 3. The only time he seems to look for other reads is when he leaves the pocket because his first read is not open for multiple seconds. He gets uncomfortable and leaves the pocket rather than stepping up like big time NFL QBs do. Remind you of anyone? 4. He is an accurate passer. When the recievers are open he gets the ball to them. He can make some tight throws and has a decent deep ball. 5. He can create plays with his legs. He seems to have decent speed and was asked to do alot of read option in his college system. From what I saw he seems like a Blaine Gabbert/Bryce Petty type more than anything. A guy who ran quick pace, 1 read offense that had success in college who you are basically just hoping can learn an NFL offense. It usually doesn't work out, and we as fans deserve more than that. I kinda agree with you...but I just wanted to say about the ‘gimmicky college offense’ thing...we’ve been hearing that for years, “the only reason he threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs was because of the system he was in” and then I think....why aren’t we using things from that system. For years it was “oh, that’ll NEVER work in the nfl.” I don’t know...I agree with you on the concerns but “Bryce Petty,” that’s just harsh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 55 minutes ago, The_Dude said: I kinda agree with you...but I just wanted to say about the ‘gimmicky college offense’ thing...we’ve been hearing that for years, “the only reason he threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs was because of the system he was in” and then I think....why aren’t we using things from that system. For years it was “oh, that’ll NEVER work in the nfl.” I don’t know...I agree with you on the concerns but “Bryce Petty,” that’s just harsh. I can see a ceiling of Big Ben and a floor of Blaine Gabbert. The unknown question is always whether a spread offense QB will adjust to the NFL - not just in terms of the offense, but in terms of the complexity of the defenses he's gonna have to face and interpret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfansinceday1 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 McBeane has shown me that they will do their due diligence and get the right guy, whether it's Rudolph, Mayfield or whomever. Popcorn is ready for popping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can see a ceiling of Big Ben and a floor of Blaine Gabbert. The unknown question is always whether a spread offense QB will adjust to the NFL - not just in terms of the offense, but in terms of the complexity of the defenses he's gonna have to face and interpret. I think a lot of teams in the NFL need to abandon the long jargon play calls and start taking more from the college game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Rudolph > Tay Tay and Petey Welcome aboard Mason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Not to be a total flame thrower, but the first four negatives on the OPs list are pretty much all the same criticism. It’s just worded so that it looks like a long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Why? 6'. Immature. I'm not confident in his ability to lead an NFL franchise and I don't think his overall game translates well at the next level. Edited February 18, 2018 by Chicken Boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Not to be a total flame thrower, but the first four negatives on the OPs list are pretty much all the same criticism. It’s just worded so that it looks like a long list. I respectfully disagree, the cliff notes are he has no experience in a pro style offense, he can't read the field, and he isn't comfortable in the pocket. One isn't because of the other, they are all seperate faults. Someone else asked me in the thread what my solution is. Personally I would sign AJ M to a somewhat reasonable contract and try to draft Falk out of Washington State. Let him learn for a couple of years and between the two of them I would feel comfortable moving forward, if not keep drafting along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 18 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can't speak for anyone else Can say that for me, the Bills big problem has been hanging onto guys who show real problems, and insufficient flashes, for 3-4 years. You shouldn't throw them out the door until you have someone better, but you should make serious attempts to find someone better. Um, have you watched Mason Rudolph? He is no way like Tyrod Taylor as a QB, not at all, and certainly nothing like what T-mobile was in college. Lamar Jackson maybe. Regarding your first paragraph, I think that level of organizational dysfunction is gone now. Guys like EJ got way more of a shot than they ever deserved and in fact were favored b/c the jobs of management/coaching rode on their success. My position is that it does not take long to see who has it or who is probably going to have it with a bit of work. It also doesn't take long to see who is never going to have it. I'd love to see us taking a big shot at a QB almost annually with an aggressive vetting process until one sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: I respectfully disagree, the cliff notes are he has no experience in a pro style offense, he can't read the field, and he isn't comfortable in the pocket. One isn't because of the other, they are all seperate faults. I think the point is, the offense he is in essentially requires him to know where he's going with the ball pre-snap. We don't know whether or not he can read the field, BECAUSE he has not been playing in a pro-style offense. Note that this is also true of Mayfield and Darnold and Jackson. I disagree with you about his comfort in the pocket. He hangs in there and moves around/takes the hit to make the play, more so than Mayfield at least. That may or may not be a good thing, it's a thing thing. 2 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: Someone else asked me in the thread what my solution is. Personally I would sign AJ M to a somewhat reasonable contract and try to draft Falk out of Washington State. Let him learn for a couple of years and between the two of them I would feel comfortable moving forward, if not keep drafting along the way. What exactly is it you like about AJ McCarron that would lead you to spend the higher salary on him? I'm aware of the games he has played and his stats in them. Edited February 18, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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