McCoy for Foles.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, 1billsfan said:

 

I just don't trust any information these insiders are getting this time of year. Why would any team decision-makers interested in Foles, or a specific QB in the 2018 draft, or Cousins, or Keenam, etc... tell an "insider" that they don't have much interest in a specific player he's asking about? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you were a team decision-maker would you let them know you were very much interested in trading for Foles right now? Of course the answer is no. Why drive up the price, especially when there are so many options available which now suddenly includes McCarron. I'm convinced that Foles is on the radar as a serious option for the Bills (if they believe he's very driven to prove he's an NFL franchise QB) and they're hoping the price becomes a second round pick. 

 

With the Bills picking 21 and 22 (all the top QB prospects gone), and seeing what Foles did to the NFC playoff teams and the Patriots, it's easy to see that this team could quickly view this option as a viable way to become a serious contender in a very bad AFC conference with him. Foles has serious NFL cred now, and I think Bills players would believe in him and look at him very differently than they would a couple of months ago. The Bills can still draft a developmental QB in the 3rd or 4th round. Maybe even using the other 2nd round pick depending on who's there.

 

Like Allbright said....fans.  There's an entire body of work that some people refuse to consider. 

[OldTimer1960]

I would not give up much, maybe no more than a 4th for Foles.  He excelled for a short time with a good offensive cast and a very good defense.  He had some DUD games that the Eagles’ D bailed him out of late in the year.

[1billsfan]

14 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Like Allbright said....fans.  There's an entire body of work that some people refuse to consider. 

 

NFL front offices will not say anything that even hints at the truth this time of year. So if they're the ones saying there isn't much interest, there probably is serious interest and buying into Foles going on, especially with teams like the Cardinals and Bills who right now are on the outside looking in with regards to the 2018 QB draft derby.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Wsam4031 said:

I was simply pointing out one year wonder type qbs. Foles got hot and looked great for the playoffs and superbowl but I dont think hes a franchise qb

 

 

Foles is a one year wonder?  What do you think of his 2013 season?

Edited February 16, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[IDBillzFan]

I hate you, offseason. I hate you to pieces.

[Freddie's Dead]

Trade our best player by far?  No.

[Wsam4031]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Foles is a one year wonder?  What do you think of his 2013 season?

ok so 1 year and 5 games wonder. Hes been bad thru out majority of his career. So do you think we can win the super bowl with him next year? do you think we can win a super bowl with him the next few years? 

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, 1billsfan said:

 

NFL front offices will not say anything that even hints at the truth this time of year. So if they're the ones saying there isn't much interest, there probably is serious interest and buying into Foles going on, especially with teams like the Cardinals and Bills who right now are on the outside looking in with regards to the 2018 QB draft derby.

 

I can see Arizona.  There is some commonality between the Andy Reid version of the West Coast offense and Mike McCoy's scheme..... 

 

I don't think the Bills are going to go in the Foles direction, I really don't.  If they liked him that much there was the chance to get him last offseason and at the time they looked across the NFL and decided retaining Taylor was their best bet.  If you think McDermott and Beane are the types of guy who are going to say "he he had 2 and a half great games in the playoffs, he's our guy" I think you totally misunderstand how thorough these guys are.  

[Chuck Wagon]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Foles is a one year wonder?  What do you think of his 2013 season?

 

 

I think it was 5 years ago.

 

We have nowhere near the skill position talent of the Eagles and likely nowhere near the offensive coaching either.  Foles looked terrible against Oakland and Dallas trying to run the Eagles full playbook, once the playoffs hit they trimmed to the bare minimum.  I think he can succeed obviously, I'm just not sure we are set up to make it happen here.

[Dave in Avon Lake now]

Not sure if this was posted already but I heard this morning Eagles want 2 first rounders for Foles.  It won't happen, but the trade scenarios proposed here won't happen either.

[MrEpsYtown]

13 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

I think there has to be some truth to this. I think Foles trade destinations will be limited. He doesn't seem like a guy who would want to go Cleveland or like the NY Jets. It would have to be a great fit. Obviously, he can't control where he goes, but he could just retire if he doesn't like the fit. I think Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota probably make sense. I'm not sure Denver is a great fit with Elway breathing down his neck. I think we make sense with the Andy Reid connection with David Culley on staff as well.  

 

 

 

[JohnC]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're a funny guy, JohnC.  "My position is firm and unshakeable" - about something over which you have absolutely no control whatsover.

 

Your sense that Taylor will not be on the Bills roster next season may be right.  Or it may be wrong.  But I think the smart money betting is whether he is, or whether he isn't, depends on what QB alternatives the Bills can put in place, not on "tea leaves" about team silence or an acknowledged "mistake" starting Peterman (which likely contributed to the OC's firing).

 

Or perhaps I'm just overly hopeful that for a change we have a cadre of experienced football professionals in place who make decisions based upon logic and 'cold hard football facts".  We can do better than Taylor.  We can also do worse.

 

I like Foles.  I'd like to have Foles here as our QB.  I consider Foles under-rated and a clear upgrade to Taylor.

 

That said, what has to be considered is what would Philly get by trading Foles for McCoy?  It's not going to happen because it's not in their interest.  What need of theirs does it fill?

I certainly agree that it would be a disadvantage for the Eagles to deal Foles for McCoy. That is one of the primary basis for my position of making that deal. Getting a starting qb, even as a bridge player, for a back whose role would decline. On balance this deal would unquestionably benefit us more than the Eagles. Think about it. Most people are critical of the proposed deal in which we would benefit more? I'm considered an outlier while so many continue to argue for the status quo. It's odd and perplexing. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I certainly agree that it would be a disadvantage for the Eagles to deal Foles for McCoy. That is one of the primary basis for my position of making that deal. Getting a starting qb, even as a bridge player, for a back whose role would decline. On balance this deal would unquestionably benefit us more than the Eagles. Think about it. Most people are critical of the proposed deal in which we would benefit more? I'm considered an outlier while so many continue to argue for the status quo. It's odd and perplexing. 

 

Literally no one at TSW is arguing for the status quo.  You're getting push back from some people with your ABT mantra that includes advocating for worse options like Mike Glennon who in no way represents an upgrade from the status quo. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, Dave in Bluffton said:

Not sure if this was posted already but I heard this morning Eagles want 2 first rounders for Foles.  It won't happen, but the trade scenarios proposed here won't happen either.

 

Can you share your source?

 

It wouldn't startle me that the Eagles would ask for that, but it would startle me if they got it.  After all, one of the attractions of drafting a rookie, even a rookie you trade up for, is that you can sign him relatively cheaply for 5 years and build around him.  Foles is going to want to be paid, and paid well.

 

It might make sense for a team to sell out their draft to trade up for a rookie, leaving them cap space to build the team with FA.  It might make sense for a team to sell out their cap to sign a FA, leaving their draft to build the team with rookies.

 

It does not make sense for a team to do both.

 

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I certainly agree that it would be a disadvantage for the Eagles to deal Foles for McCoy. That is one of the primary basis for my position of making that deal. Getting a starting qb, even as a bridge player, for a back whose role would decline. On balance this deal would unquestionably benefit us more than the Eagles. Think about it. Most people are critical of the proposed deal in which we would benefit more? I'm considered an outlier while so many continue to argue for the status quo. It's odd and perplexing. 

 

Just to be clear: I'm not critical of the proposed deal in which we would benefit more, I'm saying it would never happen because we don't just benefit more, we get something we need while the Eagles get nothing they need.  They had the #3 run game in the league last year in a pass-to-run offense.  They have no draft picks and they need them.  They are over the cap and need cap relief.

 

They are not trading Foles for an expensive player whose contract they must assume.

 

I don't see anyone arguing for the "status quo"; the point is to improve.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[The Jokeman]

On 2/14/2018 at 1:42 PM, Tipster19 said:

While I learned to love Shady it stands to reason that he is our biggest bargaining chip. Before everybody starts puking our responses just stop and think, the guy is 30 year’s old and he’s not going to single handedly bring us to the Super Bowl. Successful franchises move on and retain value for their aging gridiron stars (New England, Philadelphia under Andy Reid regime, etc etc). 

 

Under this his philosophy and speaking of Philadelphia, I believe they are our best outlet to for a starting QB. This would not only allow us to solidify the QB position but also let us retain our best resources (early draft picks) to strengthen the rest of our roster. What I would like to see is for the Bills to trade McCoy and our 2019 6th rd draft pick for Foles, RB Corey Clement and their 2019 4th rd pick. This would enable the Bills to use their 2018 top draft picks on defense, possible C if still needed and I would also like to see them draft UGA RB Sony Michel with their 2nd rd pick. In FA I’d also like for the Bills acquire soon to be released RB DeMarco Murray to a team friendly contract. 

Murray has seen his best days, while I like Foles at QB I hate the thought of this trade and sign scenario. 

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear: I'm not critical of the proposed deal in which we would benefit more, I'm saying it would never happen because we don't just benefit more, we get something we need while the Eagles get nothing they need.  They had the #3 run game in the league last year in a pass-to-run offense.  They have no draft picks and they need them.  They are over the cap and need cap relief.

 

They are not trading Foles for an expensive player whose contract they must assume.

 

I don't see anyone arguing for the "status quo"; the point is to improve.

 

 

You are missing my point. The majority of responses to this mirage deal have strenuously argued that it would be a losing proposition for us if we made this fantasy deal. I say otherwise and apparently so do you. I agree with you that the Eagles would have no incentive to make such a deal because it would be a  bad deal for them. Or another way of saying it it would be a good deal for us.  The consensus view is the opposite. There is a belief that giving up McCoy for Foles in a straight up deal would be a bad deal for us. I disagree with the consensus. That's simply what I am saying here.  

36 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Literally no one at TSW is arguing for the status quo.  You're getting push back from some people with your ABT mantra that includes advocating for worse options like Mike Glennon who in no way represents an upgrade from the status quo. 

I'm not advocating for Glennon. However, I'm open to considering all options. 

[26CornerBlitz]

On 2/14/2018 at 6:24 PM, JohnC said:

If he can run a pro offense and throw the ball down the field I would have no problem with him as a bridge qb. He would be a dramatic upgrade from what we currently have. Let me remind you that the Bills scored three points in its playoff loss in which the qb play was dreadful. 

 

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are missing my point. The majority of responses to this mirage deal have strenuously argued that it would be a losing proposition for us if we made this fantasy deal. I say otherwise and apparently so do you. I agree with you that the Eagles would have no incentive to make such a deal because it would be a  bad deal for them. Or another way of saying it it would be a good deal for us.  The consensus view is the opposite. There is a belief that giving up McCoy for Foles in a straight up deal would be a bad deal for us. I disagree with the consensus. That's simply what I am saying here.  

I'm not advocating for Glennon. However, I'm open to considering all options. 

 

You did and you were 100% wrong in your assessment. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Wsam4031 said:

ok so 1 year and 5 games wonder. Hes been bad thru out majority of his career. So do you think we can win the super bowl with him next year? do you think we can win a super bowl with him the next few years? 

 

You easily miss the point.  We would be getting Foles as he is right now, which is pretty good.  He's learned over the years, obviously, much more about his position.

 

This team, as it is, doesn't have the talent on the roster to make it to the SB in the next few years no matter who is QB.  Which of these "franchise QBs" available anywhere I'm the 1st round is more likely than Foles to get the Bills to the SB in the next few years?  Name him.

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I think it was 5 years ago.

 

We have nowhere near the skill position talent of the Eagles and likely nowhere near the offensive coaching either.  Foles looked terrible against Oakland and Dallas trying to run the Eagles full playbook, once the playoffs hit they trimmed to the bare minimum.  I think he can succeed obviously, I'm just not sure we are set up to make it happen here.

 

I agree. see above.

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

You did and you were 100% wrong in your assessment. 

I went back and clarified what I originated stated. I subsequently stated I would consider any option. If a player couldn't play I would go to the next option. If you want to play the gotcha game then play it. My point is that I would consider all options except one.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:36 PM, JohnC said:

You don't have an understanding of what I have been posting. Please stop with the ludicrous claim that you will have to pay him in the range of $100 M. I realize that for lent you gave up some things but I didn't know it was going to be your common sense. In my mind he would be a bridge qb for a year or so. If he walks after two year or even one year then so be it. At least you got some utility out of him. He would simply be a short-term bridge qb who is capable of running a pro offense and passing at a respectable level. That in itself would be a dramatic upgrade of what we have now at qb.

 

I just have one question:  if, when the dust settles, Foles winds up with a contract worth $100M, will you return for your helping of crow?

 

I mean, thinking he won't is one thing, but telling someone they lack common sense for believing it might in today's QB market seems a bit over the top.