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YoloinOhio

Bills refused to let Shady run out of the gun in 2017

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LeSean McCoy set a five-year low in percentage of carries from shotgun formations in 2017. Another reason Dennison was canned. This is gross.

 

 
Quote

Just 17 percent of McCoy's carries came out of the 'gun, a far cry from the 83 percent he logged way back in 2013 under Chip Kelly. Partly as a result, McCoy averaged a career-worst 3.97 yards per carry. McCoy has always been an elusive in-space creator and not a physical grinder between the tackles, and shotgun runs give him more room at the handoff. The 2017 Bills offensive staff failed badly to mold their scheme to their player talents, resulting in OC Rick Dennison's post-season dismissal. 

Edited by YoloinOhio
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As much as I hated Dennison I'm not sure this matters that much. Like Sal pointed out Shady was extremely productive in 2016 even though he ran out of shotgun less than half the time.

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54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

As much as I hated Dennison I'm not sure this matters that much. Like Sal pointed out Shady was extremely productive in 2016 even though he ran out of shotgun less than half the time.

there's a huge difference between 43 percent and 17 percent.  Plus his best season was 2013 - 1607 yards, 5.1 ypc, and 10.4 ypr.  He had 2146 total yards that year.

Edited by dave mcbride
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11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

As much as I hated Dennison I'm not sure this matters that much. Like Sal pointed out Shady was extremely productive in 2016 even though he ran out of shotgun less than half the time.

Maybe I’m an idiot (ok I know I am) but if the OL is struggling to block for him running it between the tackles with the new scheme, should they not adjust the way he’s getting the ball? If not the blocking scheme? I did think that they adjusted the blocking scheme as the season went on...

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The issues began with the scheme.......it instantly hamstrung Taylor and wasn't a great fit for the OL so YPC and yards BEFORE contact were both bound to drop some....for reference: Bills RB's LEAD the league in YBC in 2016.

 

Then the WR corps was gutted in the offseason/preseason and the lack of playmaking ability and/or a legit deep threat brought defenses closer to the LOS..........then, despite the issues Dennison failed to adjust to his players strengths in season........perhaps because they were winning ugly the fact that the offense was making the players look bad was palatable.  

 

 People hate to hear it but in a lot of ways McCoy had a worse year than Taylor........they both had some statistical strong points......McCoy had a number of long runs and a good yardage and carry total and Taylor had an outstanding TD to turnover ratio and good completion %.........but McCoy had a terrible YPC and ranked DFL in tackles for a loss and YAC.   Dead F'ing Last.  

 

Not allowing Taylor and McCoy to operate more out of the shotgun was a mistake.   And truthfully they should have done it more in the prior two years too.   

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10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe I’m an idiot (ok I know I am) but if the OL is struggling to block for him running it between the tackles with the new scheme, should they not adjust the way he’s getting the ball? If not the blocking scheme? I did think that they adjusted the blocking scheme as the season went on...

 

I hated the scheme we used to start the year, not sure if if was the shotgun snaps that made the difference but the scheme sucked either way. Dennison reportedly changed the scheme back to how it was in 2016 and our run game got much better. From games 1 to 8 Shady had an average of 3.66 YPA. From games 9 to 16 he had an average of 4.29 YPA. That's the difference between the 29th ranked team and the 11th ranked team in 2017. It's shocking to me in 2017 there are still coaches that mold the talent to the scheme rather than the other way around, and it took Dennison half a season to figure this out. I'm happy he's gone.

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10 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Could of been in efforts to reduce number of negative plays

 

 

McCoy lead the NFL in negative yardage runs.

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As already stated, the biggest problem was blocking scheme.

 

Most fans saw it coming the day Rick Dennison was hired, and the ensuing hiring of Juan Castillo on the offensive line.  The blocking scheme was moving away from what worked tremendously well in 2015-2016.  Our O-Line was full of big strong power blockers.  These guys wanted to switch to a zone scheme.  It was the offensive equivalent of Rex Ryan installing his 3-4 defense.

 

During the offseason, we kept hearing how the O-Line would be "fine" because they ran "some" zone blocking schemes under Anthony Lynn/Greg Roman.  But it's a big difference between incorporating some extra ideas into a gameplan, and making it the foundation of your system.  It was never going to work. 

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52 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

 

Someone should tell Sal to take a look at the tape of McCoy in 2015 versus 2016 and take note of the fact that in 2016 Shady actually followed his IZ blocking and Lynn specifically funneled him inside with his play calling once he took over.    In 2015 the end game of each run seemed to be to get out of bounds.   That was the case in 2014 as well, which is why he got traded in the first place.

 

This past season he was still that inside runner he was in 2016.......and he had some nice long runs........there are big plays to be had inside.......but overall the room was just NOT there this year.  

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A lot of the negative yardage plays were due to crap play on the OL, not the fact his handoffs did not come from the Shotgun. If guys are getting blown up in half a second it makes it hard to find a lane. 

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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe I’m an idiot (ok I know I am) but if the OL is struggling to block for him running it between the tackles with the new scheme, should they not adjust the way he’s getting the ball? If not the blocking scheme? I did think that they adjusted the blocking scheme as the season went on...

 

If you are really an idiot, are you sure you would know? :huh:

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This is the same coaching tree and offensive philosophy that tried to force Payton Manning under center all the time too.

 

There was a bit of a public dispute afterwhich Peyton Won a Super Bowl, from the Pistol formation by the way much more frequently.  

 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

there's a huge difference between 43 percent and 17 percent.  Plus his best season was 2013 - 1607 yards, 5.1 ypc, and 10.4 ypr.  He had 2146 total yards that year.

He was 5 years younger, in a new offensive scheme, with arguably the most efficient QB in the NFL that year.

 

Apples to orangutans. 

51 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

As already stated, the biggest problem was blocking scheme.

 

Most fans saw it coming the day Rick Dennison was hired, and the ensuing hiring of Juan Castillo on the offensive line.  The blocking scheme was moving away from what worked tremendously well in 2015-2016.  Our O-Line was full of big strong power blockers.  These guys wanted to switch to a zone scheme.  It was the offensive equivalent of Rex Ryan installing his 3-4 defense.

 

During the offseason, we kept hearing how the O-Line would be "fine" because they ran "some" zone blocking schemes under Anthony Lynn/Greg Roman.  But it's a big difference between incorporating some extra ideas into a gameplan, and making it the foundation of your system.  It was never going to work. 

Castillo was hired before Dennison.  And is still employed.

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45 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

He was 5 years younger, in a new offensive scheme, with arguably the most efficient QB in the NFL that year.

 

Apples to orangutans. 

 

Fundamentally disagree. Anyone who watched Shady this year could see that he had not lost a step AT ALL. He was as explosive as ever, but he was being hammered in the backfield constantly by multiple tacklers. 

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2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

LeSean McCoy set a five-year low in percentage of carries from shotgun formations in 2017. Another reason Dennison was canned. This is gross.

 

 

 

Just more evidence to how predictable the Dennison offense was.  That was the worst part of RICO, it was so predictable and stubborn.  

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McCoy lead the NFL in negative yardage runs.

 

Would it have been worse out of the shotgun?

 

Regardless, I don't think the run game would have looked any different had they run more out of the shotgun.

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2 hours ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

All those negative yardage carries are certainly related in some way ?

 

Castillo

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2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

I think blocking scheme needs to be played at feet of the one responsible - OL Coach/Run Game Coordinator Juan Castillo - not the OC and he is still part of team but fortunately was not promoted to OC so new OC has to give the coach new direction to go.

 

Some have said it is not fair for a GM to get canned due to a HC he did not have control of hiring - is it the same for OC or will this be again a sign, fire and pay to not work situation again?

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I was yelling at this all year.

 

I hated having TT lined up over the centre.

 

Put him under the gun so defences have to account for TT's legs, and at the same time will open up more space for one of the most gifted backs in the league.

 

Its really not complicated. Dennison screwed this up completely

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14 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I was yelling at this all year.

 

I hated having TT lined up over the centre.

 

Put him under the gun so defences have to account for TT's legs, and at the same time will open up more space for one of the most gifted backs in the league.

 

Its really not complicated. Dennison screwed this up completely

 

Should have yelled louder!

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