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Seanbillsfan2206

Joe Buscaglias take on the QB situation

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14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Do you really want to draft Mayfield and jinx him like that?  Signing Ftiz as your backup pretty much insures your first stringer going down.  I don't know how he does it.  Todd Collins went years in between snaps as a backup.

 

It is pure information overload.  One of the backup QB's job is to brief QB on what is seen - very few QBs can keep up with Fitzpatrick.

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6 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

FA

 

1. Kirk Cousins 

2. AJ McCarron

3. Nick Foles

 

Draft

 

1. Darnold 

2. Mayfield 

3. Luke Falk

 

You have six options to upgrade your QB position. 

 

I'd replace Falk with Rudolph. And move Foles ahead of McCarron. Everything thing else good. Im also intrigued over Jackson?

5 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Cutting TT doesn't mean he won't get a look at resigning for less money.  Of course, he would get to shop himself around.  The #21 pick Qb will be the guy from OSU.....he can't start and neither can Peterman.   Now, Daboll will have a big say in whether their is a desire to keep TT around.  If they want more run/pass.option...TT is capable of that game...more so than many..including Mason Rudoph or Nate Peterman.  Of course, if you draft the man from Louisville.....he is that run/pass type (Lamar Jackson)   Daboll will have a voice here.  And, it doesn't matter who the QB is if we don't get some wr's that can separate.  Benjiman is a speciman, but not a separation type.  ZJ is also a moves man, and the jury is out on him imho.  Only Thompson has speed and separation ability.   Don't know if Streeter has that speed...Holmes is a poor mans Benjamin.  Bills may be going backward before they go forward imho.  They need to reload bigtime in a lot of areas.

 I couldn't agree more. Our wr's and their ability to seperate scare me.

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9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I'll take Tyrod over McCown.

 

McCown had the better statistical year but coughed up a lot of Jets games with bad, Fitzpatrick esque turnovers at the absolute worst time. 

 

Still I agree with Joe. Do everything possible to secure a first round QB these guys like.

 

Yep.

 

Pretty much how I see it. Can't give Beane any credit yet. He traded away some pretty good players for unknown draft picks. Got to see how those draft picks pan out.

 

If they use those picks to get a franchise QB then hats off to them.

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with them clearing this deadwood.  Just saying it was what it was. He was just dumping guys they didn't want on the team--he wasn't interested in the deals that it took to get them out.

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7 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/2017-buffalo-bills-all-22-in-review-quarterbacks

 

Recommendations for 2018

1) Do everything in their power to secure a first round QB they believe in
- We can sit here and discuss the virtues of trying to find a defensive tackle, a linebacker, a running back — or really anything else, but it’s all secondary to finally finding an answer to the question that has evaded the franchise since Jim Kelly retired. Who will be their next franchise quarterback? That must be the focal point of the 2018 NFL Draft — and you’d have to believe that it is for GM Brandon Beane as well. The trouble is, in order for them to do it and trade all the way up into the top six, it will likely cost them a great deal, especially if they’re trading into the top three or four picks. Would they be able to stomach the idea of trading both first-round picks, perhaps next year’s first-round pick, and something else to sweeten the deal? That might just be what it takes to get themselves the young quarterback they truly believe in. So whether it’s UCLA’s Josh Rosen, USC’s Sam Darnold, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield, or Wyoming’s Josh Allen that is the apple of their eye (and I’ll be writing more about that as we go along in the offseason), if the Bills want to secure that player, they are likely going to need to move all the way up to get the job done. And if there’s any GM that can do it, the wheeling and dealing Brandon Beane certainly isn’t afraid of the task.

2) Make the Tyrod Taylor decision by March 16
- In an ideal world, the Bills could wait until after the draft to make the Tyrod Taylor decision to see how the draft and free agency all shake out before making a firm decision on their own 2018 identity at quarterback. However, this isn’t an ideal world this offseason for them, and they have a deadline to make the decision on Taylor. On March 16, Taylor has a $6 million roster bonus due that becomes fully guaranteed both in the money they have to pay him, and against the salary cap. At the present moment, if the Bills were to walk away from Taylor today, they would be on the hook for $8.64 million against the cap. If March 16 comes and goes, that increases their minimal cap hit for Taylor to $14.64 million if they were to part ways with him. With that in mind, that puts a bright red circle around Friday, March 16 as the day they must make a decision to either trade or release him. And at this point, you’d have to think the odds favor the Bills moving on ahead of the 2018 season — but in the NFL, you can never truly rule out anything.

3) If Tyrod is moved, wait until after the draft and sign a veteran
- Obviously this is all dependent on the ultimate decision they make on Tyrod Taylor, but even if they are able to secure a potential young quarterback to be their future starter, they’re going to need a veteran presence on the roster to at least be the backup as they continue the development of Nathan Peterman as a potential backup of the future. The reasons for waiting until after the draft is important, too. If they were to get into the early market for players like Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, or whoever else for the short-term, that would cost them so much that it would cancel out the high 2019 compensatory pick they could be receiving for losing E.J. Gaines via free agency this offseason. Plus, if the goal is to eventually turn the keys over to the young draft pick, signing a player to that contract for anywhere from 0 to a full year’s worth of starts doesn’t seem all that worth it to me. In my opinion, the better course of action would be to wait until after the draft (in the hopes that they land the young quarterback) and then to sign a moderately priced veteran that the young player can work with on his development of learning how to be a professional quarterback. There is also the option of the Bills waiting to see who gets released from their current contracts too because that wouldn’t count against their compensatory formula for 2019. Either way, the Bills must first make the decision on Taylor and then have a direct plan of attack to accomplish all of their goals.

 

Not sure I can say that I agree with #3. 

 

That would be quite a huge gamble. You can pretty much guarantee that any QB worth a damn will be long gone by the draft (and probably well before that). 

 

You can only draft the QB of the future if he's available in the draft. With all the teams at and near the top of the draft, there is no guarantee that the Bills can snag the guy they want, or even move up if that's what they choose to try and do. 

 

So that means, in scenario #3, there would be a real chance of having Peterman,  another mid/late round rookie, and some garbage vet (think someone like TJ Yates. For reference , guys like Josh McCown and Geno Smith were signed about 4 days after free agency began. Even EJ Manuel was signed about 1 and 1/2 weeks after free agency started and well before the draft). 

 

The only real way I'd do #3 is if the Bills are able to secure a trade for one of the top 3 picks in the draft between now and the start of the new league year, and finalize that trade right when the trade window opens again (the same day fre agency opens).

In that scenario the Bills would pretty much have to be 100% comfortable with 3 QBs in this draft, as there's no way to know who goes 1 and 2, especially if they finalized the trade almost a month before the draft. 

 

Otherwise its just way too reckless IMO. Unless the Bills have no plans of trying to improve upon last season and they don't care who plays QB for them (highly unlikely). Or they are very comfortable with the prospects of Nate Peterman as their starting QB next year (again, I don't see it). 

 

 

 

The Bills pretty much have 4 days to improve upon Tyrod Taylor in feee agency (march 12th when the tampering window opens to March 16th when they have to decide on his bonus/option). How that 4 days goes will probably determine what happens with Tyrod. I just can't see McBeane cutting him before some other plan is firmly in place. They don't seem like the reckless type. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'd replace Falk with Rudolph. And move Foles ahead of McCarron. Everything thing else good. Im also intrigued over Jackson?

 I couldn't agree more. Our wr's and their ability to seperate scare me.

I wonder if part of that was due to Dennison’s scheme

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1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

I wonder if part of that was due to Dennison’s scheme

Truly believe Dennison scheme or his play calling for most of the season didnt help at all........we can blame the QB or whoever but just about every player on offence this past season regressed from the prior year overall.....Dennison couldnt even adjust or seems like not being able to (compared to most other coaches in the league).....im so glad he is gone.....this is the same guy who pretty much tried to tell a QB like Manning how he should play QB (i remember that situation clearly in denver...guys a moron!)....

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You folks need to get a grip..look at the number # 2 option again and digest it.We need to face the facts,the Beans Counter is not going to fork over high draft picks to move up ..he told us it's a process.Taylor most likely be the starter next fall..I'm not stoked about that idea but I can handle the fact.

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Look to add the best Qb possible at the start of the league year to avoid paying Taylors option.  Depending what happens will paint a better picture of how to attack the draft.  Outside of a trade or signing Cousins I think the Bills would need to be aggressive early to get their Qb.  I believe this is the best draft since 2004.  Im not a draft a Qb because you need a Qb kind of fan.  This class is the best in a long time Imo.  Buffalo has the most picks in a long time and I feel the oppurtunity is there for the Bills to take advantage of it.

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7 hours ago, simool said:

 

Man I am not sold on Rudolph, coupled with him looking like Mike Rodak and Carly Simon's love child? Pass... I would take Jackson before him or better yet, I would trade back and take Mike White over both of them.

 

 

lol.....everyone form Boston Pats territory looks like some version of Rodak and Grappolo

Lamar Jackson looks like the love child of Michael Jackson/Donovan McNabb/Lavar/Lonzo Ball. One big mash.

McCown looks like the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Will Ferrell.

 

I would like White also, he could be had in later rounds like K Cousins was.

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3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with them clearing this deadwood.  Just saying it was what it was. He was just dumping guys they didn't want on the team--he wasn't interested in the deals that it took to get them out.

I agree.

 

I just find it ridiculous fans give Beane all the credit they give him for the trades. He gave away established NFL players for unknown draft picks. Any GM in the league could do that. 

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11 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Following Joe B's instructions, I hope it's McCown and Mayfield. 

No way.  I don't want any parts of the McCown's of the world.  If that's their thought they should just put the rookie out there from jump street and let him learn on the job.

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I can't believe Joe brought up the comp formula.  When talking bout QBs it should be against the law to mention compensatory pks. Nobody cares Joe!

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13 hours ago, Pete said:

I would not trade up for a QB, and look to acquire more picks.  There is a good chance that Lamar Jackson is available at 21.  If so I make the pick and trade down for more picks.  We need QB, DT, Edge, LBs, C, CB, T, WR- we need all the picks we can get!  Do not waste draft capital to overpay for a QB.  No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit.  Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us

 

1

Please explain the love for another running QB who needs a bunch of developmental time to become an elite NFL pocket passer. I've seen a bunch of draft sites that list him as this years 6th best QB prospect and is some mock drafts he isn't even listed as a first-round pick. RG3 anyone? I'm hoping the Bills get one of the top three or four in this years QB class.

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19 hours ago, Pete said:

I would not trade up for a QB, and look to acquire more picks.  There is a good chance that Lamar Jackson is available at 21.  If so I make the pick and trade down for more picks.  We need QB, DT, Edge, LBs, C, CB, T, WR- we need all the picks we can get!  Do not waste draft capital to overpay for a QB.  No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit.  Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/13/2012-serves-as-a-reminder-of-the-unpredictability-of-the-draft/

"The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft.

The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017. Andrew Luck, who went first overall to Indianapolis, missed the whole season with a shoulder injury. Robert Griffin III, who went second overall to Washington, is out of the NFL. Ryan Tannehill, who went eighth overall to Miami, missed the whole season with a knee injury. Brandon Weeden, who went 22nd overall to Cleveland, is a third-stringer for the Titans.

The quarterback selected in the second round in 2012, Brock Osweiler, is so bad that his primary contribution in 2017 was being part of one of the strangest trades in NFL history: The Texans traded a second-round pick to the Browns just to get them go take Osweiler and his expensive contract off their hands. After absorbing Osweiler’s cap hit and watching him in the preseason, the Browns cut him. He ended up back with the Broncos, the team that initially drafted him, and did not play well in 2017.

And then there were the next three quarterbacks drafted: Russell Wilson, who went 75th overall to Seattle, has won a Super Bowl and was an MVP candidate last season. Nick Foles, who went 88th overall to Philadelphia, just won the Super Bowl MVP award. And Kirk Cousins, who went 102nd overall to Washington, may sign the biggest contract in NFL history when he hits free agency next month."

 

AMEN ... not sold on the spread of the top 4 vs. the others than can drop to 21-22 or beyond (i.e Jackson / White)

17 hours ago, simool said:

 

Man I am not sold on Rudolph, coupled with him looking like Mike Rodak and Carly Simon's love child? Pass... I would take Jackson before him or better yet, I would trade back and take Mike White over both of them.

 

 

 

Now that is funny .. though visually accurate . .how you pulled those two together to get Mason is fantastic.

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I think people need to get past this idea that you have to draft a QB in round 1.  We have done so twice in the drought period, Manuel and Losman, and both picks were bad.

 

Ultimately you have to rely on the ability of the scouts and front office personnel to make good judgments on these guys.  So let's say they feel Darnold is a can't miss guy (I would disagree, but they do a helluva lot more work on this than I do).  Beane should then use his draft pick capital to move up and do what it takes to get him.  But let's say that after scouting they feel a guy like a Mike White has as good a potential as the supposed top 4 guys.  Then they'd be foolish to waste picks in round 1 when you can get him in round 2.

 

We can all sit here and debate what they should or should not do in the draft (and that's fun, until someone claims they alone have the answers), but remember the front office guys, scouts, etc. have invested a ton more time in evaluations, plus these guys do it for a living and have done so for years.  And even given that, if you look at top QB picks over the years only about 50% of guys taken round 1 become long term starters, and an even smaller percentage become that kind of start player every team looks for. 

 

My personal view?  It comes down to how you play poker, and I'm a conservative poker player.  If I'm holding two pair, I'll go with that as opposed to trying to draw to an inside straight.  My two pair would be a FA QB that you have watched and know that he has a given skill set that you can work with.  Ideally for me it would be Cousins; I think he's poised to be a really top tier QB (more a three of a kind or a straight for a poker hand).  But if his price is too high, or if he elects to sign elsewhere, then give me a Bridgewater or a Bradford or maybe a McCarron, and then draft a kid like a White and use the majority of your picks to build up our fronts on both sides of the ball.  I'll ride with my two pair, because  I win more than I lose doing so.   

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Josh Rosen is the guy I hope we move up for. I do ilke Darnold and I think Allen and Mayfield are intriguing, but I would only move up for Rosen or Darnold. 

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18 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

No thanks, Rudolph is average and hurst is too small and disapeared in games.

 

 

i would be happy with rudolph and vea.

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8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Please explain the love for another running QB who needs a bunch of developmental time to become an elite NFL pocket passer. I've seen a bunch of draft sites that list him as this years 6th best QB prospect and is some mock drafts he isn't even listed as a first-round pick. RG3 anyone? I'm hoping the Bills get one of the top three or four in this years QB class.

I did, but you didn't quote my whole quote. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit.  Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us.....

"The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft.

The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017.

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22 hours ago, Doc said:

Trade for Foles with pick #22 and get a later-round pick back from the Eagles.  That is all.

 

Foles isn't going anywhere this offseason.  He is under contract and between his & Wentz, the cost to the Eagles is only $15MM.  However, there is a clause in Foles contract that he will become an UFA if he is still on the roster in Feb 2019.  Best case scenario for the Eagles is Wentz is back and Foles doesn't play a down in 2018.  That way the perceived value of Foles is still high and they trade him late season to a QB needy team and that team get the last three years of his contact at just $6.1MM/year.  A team will overpay for the chance to get Foles for three years at that cost.  The Eagles will make out like bandits.

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11 minutes ago, CritMark said:

Foles isn't going anywhere this offseason.  He is under contract and between his & Wentz, the cost to the Eagles is only $15MM.  However, there is a clause in Foles contract that he will become an UFA if he is still on the roster in Feb 2019.  Best case scenario for the Eagles is Wentz is back and Foles doesn't play a down in 2018.  That way the perceived value of Foles is still high and they trade him late season to a QB needy team and that team get the last three years of his contact at just $6.1MM/year.  A team will overpay for the chance to get Foles for three years at that cost.  The Eagles will make out like bandits.

 

We'll see. 

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3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

We'll see. 

 

Tell me they know with 100% certainty that Wentz will be ready to go when the season starts and I would up the odds to 10% he will be traded this off season.  Tell me they have a plan for a backup should Wentz go down again that they feel as comfortable with as Foles and I would up the odds to 10%.  Tell me they have both and I would be willing to concede the odds are 20%.  But I don't see it happening.  He is cheap insurance and if Wentz is good to go, Foles will not have the opportunity to play poorly and diminish his value. 

 

I would expect him to be traded somewhere around week 10 if Wentz is going strong.

 

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4 minutes ago, CritMark said:

 

Tell me they know with 100% certainty that Wentz will be ready to go when the season starts and I would up the odds to 10% he will be traded this off season.  Tell me they have a plan for a backup should Wentz go down again that they feel as comfortable with as Foles and I would up the odds to 10%.  Tell me they have both and I would be willing to concede the odds are 20%.  But I don't see it happening.  He is cheap insurance and if Wentz is good to go, Foles will not have the opportunity to play poorly and diminish his value. 

 

I would expect him to be traded somewhere around week 10 if Wentz is going strong.

 

 

Philly is NEVER going to find a backup for Wentz as competent as Foles for as little as they're paying him in 2018.  Hell, they aren't going to find any backup for Wentz as competent as Foles.    If they trade Foles at all (and I'm not sure that they will), it will be late, maybe just before the trading deadline.  However, Foles seems to be a more complicated individual than most NFL players, so he might not even chase big $$ as a FA.  He was willing to walk away when he wasn't happy, so who knows?

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5 hours ago, Pete said:

I did, but you didn't quote my whole quote. No thank you to Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, RGIII or the latest overhyped QB that comes with a steep price and a big cap hit.  Stay put and let the QB and draft come to us.....

"The 2017 performance of those eight quarterbacks is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the draft.

The four first-round quarterbacks in 2012 selected threw a combined total of zero passes in 2017.

While I agree with staying put at 21, 22 or perhaps trading up to the 12 spot should a top-four guy fall. While not giving up the entire farm for a QB who may turn out to be Ryan Leaf (Rosen) or stay put and draft a Lamar Jackson who needs a ton of pocket passing development (RG3).

 

I would prefer to see the team sign Cousins or a lesser long-term answer at QB and use those three early draft picks on players to fill the holes on the current roster.

 

More specifically I was asking why Jackson? Who is another running QB vs the pocket passers of Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield? Plus, he is 6'3'' 205 lbs which is slight for the NFL as even RG3 weighed 223. 

 

At this point, I would rather not see this team draft another running QB who at this time would NOT be an upgrade to TT as Jackson has accuracy, Mechanics issues and needs a bunch of developmental time.

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2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

While I agree with staying put at 21, 22 or perhaps trading up to the 12 spot should a top-four guy fall. While not giving up the entire farm for a QB who may turn out to be Ryan Leaf (Rosen) or stay put and draft a Lamar Jackson who needs a ton of pocket passing development (RG3).

 

I would prefer to see the team sign Cousins or a lesser long-term answer at QB and use those three early draft picks on players to fill the holes on the current roster.

 

More specifically I was asking why Jackson? Who is another running QB vs the pocket passers of Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield? Plus, he is 6'3'' 205 lbs which is slight for the NFL as even RG3 weighed 223. 

 

At this point, I would rather not see this team draft another running QB who at this time would NOT be an upgrade to TT as Jackson has accuracy, Mechanics issues and needs a bunch of developmental time.

 

My hunch is that the top 4 QB's all go top 10 this draft after a few wild trades(I predict Cleveland trades down playing moneyball).  If that goes down, the remaining QB's would get bumped up on draft boards.  IMO Jackson is worth a gamble.  He is every bit the athlete Tyrod is, and then some.  His ceiling is as high as any other QB in this class.  And he would instantly be better then Peterman.

And I am not sure what options we will have.  Someone will overpay for Cousins, and then every other available QB will get way overpaid.  Considering our options, IMO Tyrod is pretty fair value at $16 million.  I am ok if we pick up Tyrod's option, draft Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen at 21.  Then we can fix front 7 and our oline with draft and free agency

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