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matter2003

Refs miss obvious illegal formation penalty on Foles TD catch

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12 minutes ago, horned dogs said:

The missed helmet to helmet hit on Cooks was a bigger play than this crap.

 

There was no missed helmet to helmet hit.  He was clearly a runner at that point.  Helmet to helmet not a foul on runner.

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21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There was no missed helmet to helmet hit.  He was clearly a runner at that point.  Helmet to helmet not a foul on runner.

 

Coining it helmet to helmet instead of keying more on the defenseless player aspect was interesting to see fans struggle with the last several years

 

How they deliver rules during broadcasts has hurt the league as much as just about anything in the last decade. Better education for announcers would go a looooong way to fans understanding and in turn appreciating the game instead of feeling confused or jobbed by the refs.

 

 

Edited by NoSaint

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1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

Coining it helmet to helmet instead of keying more on the defenseless player aspect was interesting to see fans struggle with the last several years

 

How they deliver rules during broadcasts has hurt the league as much as just about anything in the last decade. Better education for announcers would go a looooong way to fans understanding and in turn appreciating the game instead of feeling confused or jobbed by the refs.

 

I can't disagree with you.  IMHO just in yesterday's game the announcers created a bunch of confusion with their ruminations on various plays, but, at least they got the Cooks play correct.

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7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Does 3 yards off the ball appear to be on the line? He is almost in the exact same place as the wing back.

 

If that is considered on the line its the most liberal definition I've ever seen the refs take...he clearly is not on the line.

 

 

Come on, that's not three yards.

 

The WR's foot is slightly inside the three yard-line and the LOS is the one and a half. As folks say, it wasn't a worry if he confirmed it with the ref, but that's no three yards. There was another play much earlier where it was clear a play went against the Pats. Can't remember what it was. But it happened.

 

Oh, yeah, the Philly TD that was out of the end zone and the guy never had possession. That was pretty clear. But the "it's a conspiracy for the Pats group will conveniently ignore that, as it doesn't fit their preconceptions.

 

 

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's the clip in Youtube.  At about 0:21 you can see Jeffries raise an arm and point at the ref momentarily - this would be him checking - and the ref would thumb up or thumb down.  If he thumbed down, Jeffries would presumably move up.

 

If the zebra gave him the thumbs-up it would surely be ticky-tack to then call it.

 

 

Nice.

Edited by Thurman#1

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3 hours ago, cba fan said:

look at 41 sec mark. dark line where left toe drags before it hits white. This was after he put it in left arm secure and right foot was down then left foot down.

 

 

I just don't see what either of you two do.

 

The whole foot has to get down inbounds. He's not sliding that foot, he's stepping. If any part of the foot hits out, it's out. And it's out.

 

As for "moving the ball," yeah, you can move the ball but when he initially catches it he appears to have control but not be sure of it. More than half of the ball is out but he's got what appears to be a good grip and both feet down.

 

But then his left foot comes off the ground and he lets go with both hands to move them to a surer grip. He gets the better grip but his left foot having been in the air lands half in and half out. Incompletion. 

 

A virtually impossible play to call at game speed but if there was a conspiracy, they'd have gone the Pats way initially and that might have been tough or even impossible to overturn.

6 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It wasnt but the ref said it was.

 

And players in motion...99% of them are moving towards the line of scrimmage at the snap

 

 

Yeah, or guys in motion coming to a stop but not holding it for the second they're supposed to. The play starts milliseconds after they were moving. Never gets called. 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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Eagles kick off to Cheats who down the ball.  On first and 10 from the 25, Cheats WR is stepping on 25 yard line, no offsides call.  The refs in this league miss plays every game, a lot of them.  It's why I stopped doing the Zebra Report, it was a waste of time.

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I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

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48 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Eagles kick off to Cheats who down the ball.  On first and 10 from the 25, Cheats WR is stepping on 25 yard line, no offsides call.  The refs in this league miss plays every game, a lot of them.  It's why I stopped doing the Zebra Report, it was a waste of time.

 

It was a waste of time because that call rarely gets made anyways.

 

If that's what you are looking to point out, get over it. Tons of relatively inconsequential things are looked over in every sport.

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17 minutes ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

Problem is that is not PI at most that is illegal contact since the ball is not in the air at that point.  They could of had an extra play, but I think it was a good no call.

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11 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

It was not.The camera angle creates the impression. It is a matter of camera perspective in the strictest definition.

 

Actually I was being sarcastic.

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Bottom line: he checked with the ref and the ref gave him the OK.  Ergo, it was not a penalty.  we of course have those here who claim the ref is wrong or that the player was lying, but no reason to take any of that seriously.  It is a judgment call, the ref makes the judgment, and that's that.  The ref makes the judgment because that is his job.

 

The call on the back of the end zone pass?  Could have gone either way.  But, again, it is a judgment.  And that's what refs do: make judgment calls.  Personally I wish they'd get rid of replay entirely, and allow the teams and the fans to simply accept that human error can happen at times.

 

I'm sorry some people want to have the world as all black and white when in reality the world is a series of grays. 

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7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

As for "moving the ball," yeah, you can move the ball but when he initially catches it he appears to have control but not be sure of it. More than half of the ball is out but he's got what appears to be a good grip and both feet down.

 

Then that's a catch right there, as long as he has control when he goes to the ground.

 

Quote

But then his left foot comes off the ground and he lets go with both hands to move them to a surer grip. He gets the better grip but his left foot having been in the air lands half in and half out. Incompletion. 

 

I don't see both hands come off the ball.  I can find no angle on the Interwebs where you can see both hands come off the ball.  The ball is not being bobbled or juggled - you agree with that, yes?  It's not slipping down his body or popping up towards his chin?

 

To call moving the ball as he steps out of bounds "losing control" or an incompletion, would be adding a new rule.

 

I agree there is no "toe dragging" but whether or not his foot steps out of bounds while he's moving the ball is irrelevant, as long as the ball is in control as he goes to the ground.

 

 

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

Where was Brady at that point, is key.  Remember Sherman blowing up Powell in Seattle?

If Brady is in the pocket, it's PI.  If Brady has rolled out of the pocket at that point (I believe he had), it's not PI, it's a legal mugging.

 

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

 

I think he was headhunting, legally.  But while I'm sorry for Cooks, after Gronk mugged Tre White after the whistle and stayed in the game, I've had a big layer of "sorry" stripped right off the top of me where Pats as a team are concerned.

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan

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7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Come on, that's not three yards.

 

The WR's foot is slightly inside the three yard-line and the LOS is the one and a half. As folks say, it wasn't a worry if he confirmed it with the ref, but that's no three yards. There was another play much earlier where it was clear a play went against the Pats. Can't remember what it was. But it happened.

 

Apparently the relevant body parts are the center's hip and the WR helmet (head), not his hips.  I give him maybe half a yard.

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6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

I loved it. If you don't want to get knocked out stop dancing in the middle of the field.

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I didn't realize by the letter of the law it was a legal hit.

 

It still is a bad look for the NFL, that a hit like that where he clearly targeted Cooks head with his helmet at full speed is tolerated. Remember how many people watch the Super Bowl. A lot of Moms just had confirmed in their minds why they won't allow kids to play.

 

 I stand by my comment about it having a bigger impact than the Jeffery incident.

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2 hours ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

I call that a good no call. Every Eagle is turned around, and contact is far less than the mugging than Gronk regularly doles out to DBs

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10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I just don't see what either of you two do.

 

The whole foot has to get down inbounds. He's not sliding that foot, he's stepping. If any part of the foot hits out, it's out. And it's out.

 

As for "moving the ball," yeah, you can move the ball but when he initially catches it he appears to have control but not be sure of it. More than half of the ball is out but he's got what appears to be a good grip and both feet down.

 

But then his left foot comes off the ground and he lets go with both hands to move them to a surer grip. He gets the better grip but his left foot having been in the air lands half in and half out. Incompletion. 

 

A virtually impossible play to call at game speed but if there was a conspiracy, they'd have gone the Pats way initially and that might have been tough or even impossible to overturn.

 

 

Yeah, or guys in motion coming to a stop but not holding it for the second they're supposed to. The play starts milliseconds after they were moving. Never gets called. 

 

It is hard to see unless you blow up the vid to full screen and play in slow mo due to navy blue end zone. At 41 sec mark you can clearly see a dark line mark made as his toes slide on turf kicking up rubber pellets of the turf. That means he is touching in bounds. Just like the dark strip KB made dragging his toes in NE on TD called back vs Pats this year. Except Eagle has ball secure as he already changed hands unlike KB did.

 

at 1:08 he clearly has ball secure in left arm. Right foot down and left foot toes ar starting to drag. He never steps down flat footed, and toes slide out of bounds.

 

The whole foot does not need to get in bounds. That only comes into play when a player steps straight down like a normal step walking, and contacts heel first then toes come down flat. For some reason then NFL considers that out of bounds if heel is in but flat footed toes are out. It was reversed in Bills favor in MN Super Bowl vs Wash on end line in end zone negating a Wash TD. You could argue if heel touches down first then completing the step flat footed with toes out could still be legal catch but NFL has set precedence for that and they say Out of bounds. If you are going to argue Eagles needed whole foot to be inbounds you are wrong. He never steps flat he slides his toes and that is all he needs to do.

 

Just when he gets full control in left arm after changing ball position his right foot is down, he then drags his left toes inbounds and maintains control in left arm before his toes reach the white. TD all day.

Edited by cba fan

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6 minutes ago, Doc said:

If Jeffery checked with the ref, it doesn't matter. 

 

I'm not complaining at all with a call going against the Patriots after all of the "breaks" they have received from the officials over the years. 

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