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The Thread For Greg's Stashes


3rdnlng

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22 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

I don't believe anyone here  supports making our air and water dirtier. I just don't see much resistance to the administration for 85 Environmental Rules  being rolled back under Trump that affect clean air and water. Opinion is one thing , facts are important.

 

Of those 85 regulations, how many were redundant? How many were necessary? How many were effective? What did they actually accomplish?

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11 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Of those 85 regulations, how many were redundant? How many were necessary? How many were effective? What did they actually accomplish?

 

Read the article and decide for yourself. 

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14 hours ago, ALF said:

 

85 Environmental Rules Being
Rolled Back Under Trump

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html

 

So do you agree with the President ?

 

    
ROLLBACKS COMPLETED    ROLLBACKS IN PROCESS    TOTAL ROLLBACKS

 

 Air pollution and emissions    10    14    24

 

 Drilling and extraction               9       9      18

 

 Infrastructure and planning    12    1        13

 

 Animals                                         9      1     10
                
 Toxic substances and safety    4       1        5

 

 Water pollution                              5      2         7

 

 Other                                                 4    4        8

 

The Times compilation is a 3rd or 4th hand account of the changes, and doesn’t actually detail the effects of the change and how it affects the environment.  I’ll leave it to you to determine if the Times’ is biased in any way.

 

I took a look at one of the regs cited, it dealt with reclassifying compliance requirement for chemical facilities that have reduced emissions and pollutants below the threshold levels.  Under the old regs, the facilities were still bound under the stricter requirements, but under Trump the facilities who cleaned up would be subject to the same requirements as other cleaner facilities.    

 

It’s all in the perception, isn’t it?

3 hours ago, ALF said:

 

Read the article and decide for yourself. 

 

The article is a compilation of the changes.  It doesn’t address the regs themselves, nor Koko’s valid questions.

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27 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The Times compilation is a 3rd or 4th hand account of the changes, and doesn’t actually detail the effects of the change and how it affects the environment.  I’ll leave it to you to determine if the Times’ is biased in any  way   

 

It’s all in the perception, isn’t it?

 

The article is a compilation of the changes.  It doesn’t address the regs themselves, nor Koko’s valid questions.

 

If I were a Environmental Scientist I might be able to answer those valid questions, but I'm not. It's a long article with a link to every item.

 

It's a general  take  FWIW  

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16 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

If I were a Environmental Scientist I might be able to answer those valid questions, but I'm not. It's a long article with a link to every item.

 

It's a general  take  FWIW  

That's the point. It's a generalized article from people with an agenda.  

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17 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

If I were a Environmental Scientist I might be able to answer those valid questions, but I'm not. It's a long article with a link to every item.

 

It's a general  take  FWIW  

 

A general take from the NY Times. The paper of record. A paper full of journalistic integrity! Staffed by teams of writers who would never spread less-than-accurate information, or intentionally put things out-of-context solely to trash the current administration.

 

I'm convinced!

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How did those regulations get put in place in the first place (rhetorical)?  Were those Obama edicts or were they Congressional actions or where did  they typically begin?  If not edicts, at some point folks debated the need for these regs and thought they had some value, right?

 

The problem I have is that Trump seems to view the economy as his sole scorecard.  He acts as if the economy is good, he will be re-elected, and he is likely right.  In my opinion, this is trading short term gain for long term pain.

 

For example, I imagine dropping the child labor laws in this country would generate short term profits for some industries and look good for business profits initially but would leave our country with a generation of under educated, difficult to retrain workers.  Promoting business growth over all else is bad policy.

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1 hour ago, ALF said:

 

If I were a Environmental Scientist I might be able to answer those valid questions, but I'm not. It's a long article with a link to every item.

 

Probably a good time to point out that most of those regulations weren't written by environmental scientists anyway...  :rolleyes:

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44 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Probably a good time to point out that most of those regulations weren't written by environmental scientists anyway...  :rolleyes:

Lawyers writing environmental policy is made up for by MIT economists creating the ACA.

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1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said:

How did those regulations get put in place in the first place (rhetorical)?  Were those Obama edicts or were they Congressional actions or where did  they typically begin?  If not edicts, at some point folks debated the need for these regs and thought they had some value, right?

 

The problem I have is that Trump seems to view the economy as his sole scorecard.  He acts as if the economy is good, he will be re-elected, and he is likely right.  In my opinion, this is trading short term gain for long term pain.

 

For example, I imagine dropping the child labor laws in this country would generate short term profits for some industries and look good for business profits initially but would leave our country with a generation of under educated, difficult to retrain workers.  Promoting business growth over all else is bad policy.

   Why is this just a Trump issue...why is everyone dead silent on China on these same climate issues?

This is just another weapon forged by the left to attack Trump.

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8 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Of those 85 regulations, how many were redundant? How many were necessary? How many were effective? What did they actually accomplish?

 

Exactly. How many are based in science, or even reality vs purely political motivation? Many regulatory benchmarks are set simply to allow officials to say that they imposed tighter regulations, many of which are nothing more than lip service to activists.

 

8 hours ago, ALF said:

 

Read the article and decide for yourself. 

 

Dodge. You posted it, so you must find some validity in it, right? 

 

5 hours ago, GG said:

 

The Times compilation is a 3rd or 4th hand account of the changes, and doesn’t actually detail the effects of the change and how it affects the environment.  I’ll leave it to you to determine if the Times’ is biased in any way.

 

I took a look at one of the regs cited, it dealt with reclassifying compliance requirement for chemical facilities that have reduced emissions and pollutants below the threshold levels.  Under the old regs, the facilities were still bound under the stricter requirements, but under Trump the facilities who cleaned up would be subject to the same requirements as other cleaner facilities.    

 

It’s all in the perception, isn’t it?

 

The article is a compilation of the changes.  It doesn’t address the regs themselves, nor Koko’s valid questions.

 

Exactly. 

 

4 hours ago, ALF said:

 

If I were a Environmental Scientist I might be able to answer those valid questions, but I'm not. It's a long article with a link to every item.

 

It's a general  take  FWIW  

 

General take or not, you ought to be able to back up your point with some kind of substance. 

 

4 hours ago, GG said:

That's the point. It's a generalized article from people with an agenda.  

 

:beer:

 

3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Probably a good time to point out that most of those regulations weren't written by environmental scientists anyway...  :rolleyes:

 

:thumbsup:

 

2 hours ago, Albwan said:

   Why is this just a Trump issue...why is everyone dead silent on China on these same climate issues?

This is just another weapon forged by the left to attack Trump.

 

The NYT would be all over China if they adopted Trump's environmental standards, despite the fact that his are far more responsible than theirs are currently. 

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1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

I'm not sure what's more disturbing, people driving around while recording it on their cell phones, or people who watch TV while recording it on their cell phones.

what's disturbing is that it doesn't appear that we can build ***** anymore.

 

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4 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

How did those regulations get put in place in the first place (rhetorical)?  Were those Obama edicts or were they Congressional actions or where did  they typically begin?  If not edicts, at some point folks debated the need for these regs and thought they had some value, right?

 

The problem I have is that Trump seems to view the economy as his sole scorecard.  He acts as if the economy is good, he will be re-elected, and he is likely right.  In my opinion, this is trading short term gain for long term pain.

 

For example, I imagine dropping the child labor laws in this country would generate short term profits for some industries and look good for business profits initially but would leave our country with a generation of under educated, difficult to retrain workers.  Promoting business growth over all else is bad policy.

 

Child labor laws didn’t do the leg work to end child labor in the US, capitalism did.

 

Almost all child labor had been eliminated prior to legislation being passed.  Innovations which made workers more productive had eliminated the need for their labor in the economy.  The only child labor those regulations eliminated was that of people in families living in poverty and orphans, two groups which depended on the ability to work to survive.

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1 hour ago, Azalin said:

 

Exactly. How many are based in science, or even reality vs purely political motivation? Many regulatory benchmarks are set simply to allow officials to say that they imposed tighter regulations, many of which are nothing more than lip service to activists.

 

Dodge. You posted it, so you must find some validity in it, right? 

 

General take or not, you ought to be able to back up your point with some kind of substance. 

 

The NYT would be all over China if they adopted Trump's environmental standards, despite the fact that his are far more responsible than theirs are currently. 

 

You convinced me , Trump is the greatest savior of the environment in the history of mankind

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