In-Depth Breakdown of Josh Allen by Eliot Crist, Greg Cosell, Joe B, and Other Analysts

[NewEraBills]

2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

No.

He has first hand experience with Kyle Boller, not Josh Allen.

No two players are the same.

Fwiw I agree that he's a huge upside and a very low downside.

The problem is people talk in extremes.

Just because he has great tools doesn't mean he'll be great, but just because he doesn't reach that potential doesn't mean he will be terrible either.

It's not an either-or.

There is plenty of room in the middle.

 

 

Actually yes.   Billick never said Allen would be horrible or that he would be Boller.  He simply stated that concerning Boller, the scouts convinced them that the completion percentage could be overlooked based on the same things people are saying about Allen.  All Billick is saying is for a top 5 pick there should be a very serious concern and any team should believe him about the concern, IMO.

 

Boller was the 19th pick after they took Suggs.  Allen to me should be in the same range - 12 to 19.  I wouldn't have an issue with Allen at 12 and because of the concerns surrounding him, I think he will be in that range.  If I'm drafting him I'm getting the best in the business for him to succeed.  He's going to have a QB coach that is tightly connected with the O-Coordinator.  He cannot play right now.  I'd make sure I have someone that can be a strong holdover until he's ready.

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

I completely agree with what you say here. The problem is if the bills draft him at 12 or, more to the point, use draft picks to move up and get him, even ending up in the middle equates to his being a bust.

 

 It’s amazing to read the wide range of predictions about this guy from all of the “experts“. “Polarizing“ is indeed the term to use with regard to him. But, As a bills fan trusting the process, if we get him I’ll be OK with it.

 

Again, Billick did not predict anything about him.  He just issued a concern that teams should have.  Stating a concern is not a prediction.

Edited March 30, 2018 by NewEraBills

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

Actually yes.   Billick never said Allen would be horrible or that he would be Boller.  He simply stated that concerning Boller, the scouts convinced them that the completion percentage could be overlooked based on the same things people are saying about Allen.  All Billick is saying is for a top 5 pick there should be a very serious concern and any team should believe him about the concern, IMO.

 

Boller was the 19th pick after they took Suggs.  Allen to me should be in the same range - 12 to 19.  I wouldn't have an issue with Allen at 12 and because of the concerns surrounding him, I think he will be in that range.  If I'm drafting him I'm getting the best in the business for him to succeed.  He's going to have a QB coach that is tightly connected with the O-Coordinator.  He cannot play right now.  I'd make sure I have someone that can be a strong holdover until he's ready.

 

Actually, again, no.

He has not coached Allen so he cannot have first hand experience with him. 

He has experience that he drafted an athletic, strong arm QB, with a low college comp %.

Boller wasn't touted as a #1 pick.

He was always seen as a project.

 

[NewEraBills]

6 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Actually, again, no.

He has not coached Allen so he cannot have first hand experience with him. 

He has experience that he drafted an athletic, strong arm QB, with a low college comp %.

Boller wasn't touted as a #1 pick.

He was always seen as a project.

 

 

So you don't think there is a comparison based on the college career of the two players?  It sounds like to me you're comparing Boller the failure to Allen the guy coming out of college.  I think Billick is comparing Boller, the guy coming out of college to Allen the guy coming out of college.  They both share the same set of concerns regarding accuracy and completion percentage. 

 

Isn't Allen a project?  A guy that is not a project should be seen as someone that can start day 1 or at least midseason.  It's a consensus that Allen should not be starting on any team right now and not this year, therefore he is considered a project.

 

Look all Billick is saying is coming out of school these guys are similar in certain respects that should not be ignored.  The difference is Allen gets a chance to write his own book.  Boller already wrote his.

Edited March 30, 2018 by NewEraBills

[SouthNYfan]

12 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

So you don't think there is a comparison based on the college career of the two players?  It sounds like to me you're comparing Boller the failure to Allen the guy coming out of college.  I think Billick is comparing Boller, the guy coming out of college to Allen the guy coming out of college.  They both share the same set of concerns regarding accuracy and completion percentage. 

 

Isn't Allen a project?  A guy that is not a project should be seen as someone that can start day 1 or at least midseason.  It's a consensus that Allen should not be starting on any team right now and not this year, therefore he is considered a project.

 

Look all Billick is saying is coming out of school these guys are similar in certain respects that should not be ignored.  The difference is Allen gets a chance to write his own book.  Boller already wrote his.

 

I don't disagree, my point was that billick has first hand knowledge of Boller, not Allen.

Allen is higher ranked than Boller was, but yes I agree there are some similarities.

Also Boller didn't write his own book, he lit the pages on fire ?

[Tatonka68]

Josh Allen is a $20 scratch off card, You could win $5,000,000 or you could loose your $20.00. Is it worth trading up and giving away picks for such a gamble? Depends if you get the $5,000,000. 

[Mat68]

13 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Josh Allen is a $20 scratch off card, You could win $5,000,000 or you could loose your $20.00. Is it worth trading up and giving away picks for such a gamble? Depends if you get the $5,000,000. 

Any Qb you draft is a scratch of ticket.  There are no guarantees.  If you are making the gamble wouldnt you go with the one with the largest payout?  

[Tatonka68]

59 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Any Qb you draft is a scratch of ticket.  There are no guarantees.  If you are making the gamble wouldnt you go with the one with the largest payout?  

YES, if you want to gamble.

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Any Qb you draft is a scratch of ticket.  There are no guarantees.  If you are making the gamble wouldnt you go with the one with the largest payout?  

 

 

Why not approach it differently.  Would you go instead with the one that has a lower payout but higher chance of winning?    

[26CornerBlitz]

Greg Cosell's draft analysis: Josh Allen, a young wild stallion who needs to be channeled
Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen will go high in the NFL draft, perhaps even first overall, and we all know why.

Allen is a prototype. His physical skill set and overall traits are high level. He has the desired combination of arm strength and athleticism with the ability to move in the pocket and make plays. His size, at 6-foot-5, 237 pounds, is what NFL teams want.

The physical traits jump off the tape. That much is clear. But when you watch his tape, it’s also clear Allen needs to be coached hard and requires a pass game system that defines his reads and throws — like you’ll see in the offensive schemes of Los Angeles Rams coach Sean McVay or San Francisco 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Greg Cosell's draft analysis: Josh Allen, a young wild stallion who needs to be channeled
Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen will go high in the NFL draft, perhaps even first overall, and we all know why.

Allen is a prototype. His physical skill set and overall traits are high level. He has the desired combination of arm strength and athleticism with the ability to move in the pocket and make plays. His size, at 6-foot-5, 237 pounds, is what NFL teams want.

The physical traits jump off the tape. That much is clear. But when you watch his tape, it’s also clear Allen needs to be coached hard and requires a pass game system that defines his reads and throws — like you’ll see in the offensive schemes of Los Angeles Rams coach Sean McVay or San Francisco 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan.

 

Do we even have a QB coach to coach him? 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

Do we even have a QB coach to coach him? 

 

That would be Culley's responsibility.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[jrober38]

59 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

I don't get how anyone can take a 2-3 year project, who is only going to be given 1 year to sit and learn, with a top 10 pick. 

 

Josh Allen isn't going to get enough time to sit and learn, and he's going to get a whole front office and coaching staff fired. 

 

Hopefully it's not ours. I like Beane and McDermott. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

How can anyone say which QB has the best upside? Every year there's some QB with the "highest ceiling," it's usually the one with the strongest arm, but that makes no sense. The QB with the highest ceiling is the one that gets there. Tom Brady had the highest ceiling of the 2000 draft, you certainly wouldn't have known that beforehand though. It's just crazy to me, the way people talk about Allen you'd think that all his flaws are actually positives because that means he has "upside." I don't want to take a QB with the highest upside in the top 10, I want the guy with the lowest downside.

Edited April 14, 2018 by HappyDays

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[crack]

23 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

The stuff about poor anticipation, slow reads and being late throwing the ball scare me. That sounds like Tyrod.

[Thurman#1]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:53 AM, sjjr said:

Our last 1st Rd QB picked was a 6'5" 240lb guy who could move with a big arm.  The problem was his accuracy and ball placement.  This would be the same mistake.  A team can only draft this guy if they have a coach with a history of fixing the problems Allen has.  It is probably a multi year process.

 

 

Manuel's problems went well beyond accuracy and ball placement, though those were also a problem. They were more about not making good quick decisions about where to go. He had problems reading defenses and throwing to the right guy, and he has fairly poor pocket movement skills.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/22/inaccuracy-talk-bugs-josh-allen/

“The inaccuracy issue,” Allen said. “Going back to college having a 56-percent completion percentage. Obviously, it’s not great. But I think that it’s a little blown out of proportion. I do think that I’m accurate. Jordan Palmer’s helped me out a lot throughout this process with getting my feet right. Once we did that [I’m] throwing the ball a little easier. The ball’s coming out and where it’s supposed to be.”

 

So why the low completion percentage?

 

“I think if you look at the film at the times that I did miss, my feet were jacked,” Allen said. “Going back to our offensive system I was asked to do a lot of things within our system. Threw the ball downfield a lot. I am the one to admit that I didn’t put the ball where it needed to be all the time. But, you know, given the circumstances that we had in Wyoming, we won two back-to-back eight-win seasons. It was a place where we ended up winning football games. I think that I helped out in that manner putting the team in the best position to win football games.”

 

Others have explained the situation in similar fashion, and others have the freedom to say that maybe Allen’s receivers weren’t sufficiently skilled to catch his throws more often. Allen won’t say that; instead, he freely admits that he consistently didn’t put the ball where it needed to be. While that’s a fair concern, the fact that he won’t blame any of it on his receivers is a sign that he is and will be a good teammate at the next level, which is an underrated aspect of whether and to what extent his NFL teammates will want to embrace him — or whether they’ll want to punch him in the face.