My Case For: Lamar Jackson

[JaCrispy]

Please, no more QBs where running is their best attribute...for all that is good and holy, I begging you!!! 

Edited January 22, 2018 by JaCrispy

[SouthNYfan]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

That had best be dealt with via NFL Coaching.
But the pain might well be the same when your center and or guards miss a LB blitz, or a big safety.
Putting a young or new NFL QB in a position for long term success is on Coaching period. What the Kid does with the said Coaching is another story altogether.

 But i do agree mostly.

another reason to let him ride the pine and see the game up close for awhile. I vote for that method with Any QB Bills draft

 

I agree on this for the most part, except on the blitz part.

While those can be bad, a QB moving full speed one direction into a linebacker/safety going full speed into him from the other direction is definitely a harder hit, it's just physics.

 

But yeah...

I wouldn't be terribly upset with Jackson, I'm just fearful of ANY running QBs shelf life.

[Ol Dirty B]

15 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

So basically your thought process is “anyone who disagrees with me is a racist.” You’re an idiot.

 

No, plenty of people can disagree. Most just have no ability to support their posts.

 

I'm an idiot... You're a !@#$. And you follow me around, put me on ignore, !@#$ boy.

6 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

I'm not a fan of guys who scramble and run a lot.

 

I don't hate Lamar, I think he'll be a solid NFL QB actually.

 

I just am terrified at a guy his size running through midfield, trying to jump/spin move, and getting broken in half.

 

Guys in the NFL typically (especially linebackers and safeties) don't miss like they do in college.

 

You mistime that spin and they will smash you.

 

Cam weighed 30+ lbs more than Lamar when he entered the NFL

Hell rgiii had 10-12 lbs on Jackson.

 

His skills don't really scare me, it's him getting leveled and broken that do.

 

 

 

Rg3 also had a knee injury already. You're talking about concern for guys getting hit who are built more solidly than most rbs or wrs.

 

Injuries happen, can we stop avoiding people because they might get hurt? They traded a wr in part because of his injury history and in return 3 guys they traded for all got injured. What Whaley said was right, this sport is something not meant to be played by humans. You take take the most talent and roll the dice.

[SouthNYfan]

8 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

No, plenty of people can disagree. Most just have no ability to support their posts.

 

I'm an idiot... You're a !@#$. And you follow me around, put me on ignore, !@#$ boy.

 

Rg3 also had a knee injury already. You're talking about concern for guys getting hit who are built more solidly than most rbs or wrs.

 

Injuries happen, can we stop avoiding people because they might get hurt? They traded a wr in part because of his injury history and in return 3 guys they traded for all got injured. What Whaley said was right, this sport is something not meant to be played by humans. You take take the most talent and roll the dice.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but some things are higher risk than others.

 

Driving a car is statistically one of the more dangerous activities.

Driving 70mph in a snow storm is higher risk than driving 45mph on a clear day.

Even if you do crash doing 45mph on a clear day, the chances of a severe injury are much lower than a crash at 75mph.

 

A quarterback who is 215 lbs who frequently runs and gets creamed by linebackers and safeties is a much higher risk for injury, as well as a higher risk for a major injury, than a 230+ lb pocket passer.

 

So yes, anybody can get hurt.

A scrambling QB just has a higher chance of it, and more likely to be worse of an injury.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but some things are higher risk than others.

 

Driving a car is statistically one of the more dangerous activities.

Driving 70mph in a snow storm is higher risk than driving 45mph on a clear day.

Even if you do crash doing 45mph on a clear day, the chances of a severe injury are much lower than a crash at 75mph.

 

A quarterback who is 215 lbs who frequently runs and gets creamed by linebackers and safeties is a much higher risk for injury, as well as a higher risk for a major injury, than a 230+ lb pocket passer.

 

So yes, anybody can get hurt.

A scrambling QB just has a higher chance of it, and more likely to be worse of an injury.

 

It's a fair point, I understand what you're saying. I'm going against conventional wisdom I just injuries are part of the game. I could be wrong, but I feel like Vick was rarely injured. Then you have guys like Jake locker who can't stay healthy. It's just a crap shoot in my opinion. 

 

If Lamar could be a great prospect on the board when they draft, I just hope they don't pass on him because he may get injured trying to make a play. I'm fine with passing on him, I just hope it's based on something they see in his potential rather than he may get hurt. Like I said, I'd rather just roll the dice with the highest upside available to me.

[njbuff]

Jackson would need to be redshirted for two years if the Bills draft him.

 

He needs to put on some muscle and needs to learn how to read an NFL defense.

 

I think he can accomplish those things, but sitting him is priority number one.

 

So, I can see the Bills going after Alex Smith or Sam Bradford to bridge the gap.

 

Lamar Jackson does have the tools to be a big time NFL QB, but development is everything with him.

[SouthNYfan]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's a fair point, I understand what you're saying. I'm going against conventional wisdom I just injuries are part of the game. I could be wrong, but I feel like Vick was rarely injured. Then you have guys like Jake locker who can't stay healthy. It's just a crap shoot in my opinion. 

 

If Lamar could be a great prospect on the board when they draft, I just hope they don't pass on him because he may get injured trying to make a play. I'm fine with passing on him, I just hope it's based on something they see in his potential rather than he may get hurt. Like I said, I'd rather just roll the dice with the highest upside available to me.

 

Fair!!

 

Vick had very little injuries prior to his prison time.

He was also the greatest runner of any QB in league history.

His agility and skill in making people miss was just crazy.

When he returned from prison he was a better thrower, but was now taking direct hits when he ran, most likely due to losing a step or two.

He had multiple concussions, rib, and hamstring injuries, all causing missed games.

 

I'm not arguing with you by the way, just a little Vick history:)

[Virgil]

There’s clearly something about him that’s turning teams off. His arm strength, speed, and numbers would indicate a first round pick, but he’s not being talked about that way. 

 

Like I said before, he kind of reminds me of Geno Smith. Geno lit up the college world until defenses figured him out.  Jackson has the legs to keep defenses honest, so it wasn’t as apparent. 

 

In the NFL, I think his speed gets neutralized and his skills as a passer will be needed. 

 

Basically Tyrod 

[SouthNYfan]

10 minutes ago, Virgil said:

There’s clearly something about him that’s turning teams off. His arm strength, speed, and numbers would indicate a first round pick, but he’s not being talked about that way. 

 

Like I said before, he kind of reminds me of Geno Smith. Geno lit up the college world until defenses figured him out.  Jackson has the legs to keep defenses honest, so it wasn’t as apparent. 

 

In the NFL, I think his speed gets neutralized and his skills as a passer will be needed. 

 

Basically Tyrod 

 

Except colleges never really figured out Geno

His statistics were crazy good

So was his raw talent and athleticism

The issue with Geno was his mindset.

During a precombine interview he was asked "what's the biggest thing you think you need to learn or work on to make the step to the NFL?"

His response? "I don't need to learn anything, there is nothing an NFL coach could teach me I don't already know"

I remember hearing that and thinking "this guy is going to get roasted in the NFL"

 

Jackson is a work-o-holic

He is a film room junkie

He wants to succeed

He knows to do that you need to put in work and study and practice

(Apparently so is Taylor)

 

Big differences though:

Tyrod Taylor was also not even close the level Jackson is at entering the draft.

Sure they are both mobile QBs, that's about it.

 

Tyrod wasn't half the prospect entering the draft that Jackson is.

 

This is not me endorsing Jackson as our pick by the way.

As I said above, I'd prefer a more pocket oriented passer.

My point is to say that Jackson is "basically tyrod" is just an over generalization because they are both running QBs.

[Spiderweb]

Living in the Louisville area, I watched Lamar Jackson a fair amount in the past two years and to me he's another QB of the Tebow mold in that he was a great college QB who won't translate well to the pros. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Spiderweb

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Except colleges never really figured out Geno

His statistics were crazy good

So was his raw talent and athleticism

The issue with Geno was his mindset.

During a precombine interview he was asked "what's the biggest thing you think you need to learn or work on to make the step to the NFL?"

His response? "I don't need to learn anything, there is nothing an NFL coach could teach me I don't already know"

I remember hearing that and thinking "this guy is going to get roasted in the NFL"

 

 

Mindset and decision making.  Geno threw an absolutely lovely ball.  Had a nice smooth delivery.... problem is he was bad at deciding where to throw it.  Indeed it was watching Geno in college at a time when people were thinking potential top 10 pick and not understanding it that made me decide I was going to try and start evaluating propsects myself in 2014..... so I have him to thank / blame.  

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Except colleges never really figured out Geno

His statistics were crazy good

So was his raw talent and athleticism

The issue with Geno was his mindset.

During a precombine interview he was asked "what's the biggest thing you think you need to learn or work on to make the step to the NFL?"

His response? "I don't need to learn anything, there is nothing an NFL coach could teach me I don't already know"

I remember hearing that and thinking "this guy is going to get roasted in the NFL"

 

Jackson is a work-o-holic

He is a film room junkie

He wants to succeed

He knows to do that you need to put in work and study and practice

(Apparently so is Taylor)

 

Big differences though:

Tyrod Taylor was also not even close the level Jackson is at entering the draft.

Sure they are both mobile QBs, that's about it.

 

Tyrod wasn't half the prospect entering the draft that Jackson is.

 

This is not me endorsing Jackson as our pick by the way.

As I said above, I'd prefer a more pocket oriented passer.

My point is to say that Jackson is "basically tyrod" is just an over generalization because they are both running QBs.

 

I respectfully disagree. If you look at the back half of Geno’s final college season, he was absolutely shut down. He could barely put up any points. 

 

I was a big Geno fan and was shocked to see how much defenses figured him out. That’s the main reason why he fell in the draft 

[SouthNYfan]

44 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I respectfully disagree. If you look at the back half of Geno’s final college season, he was absolutely shut down. He could barely put up any points. 

 

I was a big Geno fan and was shocked to see how much defenses figured him out. That’s the main reason why he fell in the draft 

 

Do you even look at game logs before posting?

 

He threw for 298/ypg (1788 yards) over his final 6 games

 

He threw for 16 td and 4 int

 

Oh, Geno also wasn't a rushing qb, totaling only 151 yards in 13 games his final season

 

His final season as a whole was 71.2% comp, 4205 yards, 42 td 6 int

 

You have no clue in regards to him as a college QB and what he did.

 

His attitude and lack of willingness to learn was what killed his draft stock.

 

[DCOrange]

50 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I respectfully disagree. If you look at the back half of Geno’s final college season, he was absolutely shut down. He could barely put up any points. 

 

I was a big Geno fan and was shocked to see how much defenses figured him out. That’s the main reason why he fell in the draft 

Yeah, his numbers fell off a cliff the 2nd half of the year and WVU went on a huge losing streak.

11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Do you even look at game logs before posting?

 

He threw for 298/ypg (1788 yards) over his final 6 games

 

He threw for 16 td and 4 int

 

Oh, Geno also wasn't a rushing qb, totaling only 151 yards in 13 games his final season

 

His final season as a whole was 71.2% comp, 4205 yards, 42 td 6 int

 

You have no clue in regards to him as a college QB and what he did.

 

His attitude and lack of willingness to learn was what killed his draft stock.

 

Geno went from averaging 379 yards over the first 6 games with a 75% completion percentage, 25 TDs, and 0 INTs to 275 yards, 67%, 17 TDs, and 6 INTs over the last 7 games. WVU went 5-1 over the first 6 and went 2-5 over the last 7 games.

[SouthNYfan]

20 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Yeah, his numbers fell off a cliff the 2nd half of the year and WVU went on a huge losing streak.

Geno went from averaging 379 yards over the first 6 games with a 75% completion percentage, 25 TDs, and 0 INTs to 275 yards, 67%, 17 TDs, and 6 INTs over the last 7 games. WVU went 5-1 over the first 6 and went 2-5 over the last 7 games.

That's not "off a cliff" 

300 yards, 67% comp, 17td 6 int is very good

Remove his 8 td game and his first half is close

[DCOrange]

20 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

That's not "off a cliff" 

300 yards, 67% comp, 17td 6 int is very good

Remove his 8 td game and his first half is close

His passing yards dropped by 100 per game, TDs went from over 4 per game to less than 2.5, and his TD/INT ratio went from 25/0 to less than 3/1. It's a huge drop off without even pointing out that the team as a whole fell off a cliff too. Of course his numbers were still good, but it was indeed a huge drop off.

Edited January 22, 2018 by DCOrange

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

His passing yards dropped by 100 per game, TDs went from over 4 per game to less than 2.5, and his TD/INT ratio went from 25/0 to less than 3/1. It's a huge drop off without even pointing out that the team as a whole fell off a cliff too.

 

It's a big drop off

We can agree to disagree on the cliff

 

My point was that he dropped in the draft because he didn't respond well to the adjustments

 

His mentality was that he was better than anybody else and didn't need to learn anything

 

That's why he dropped

 

The other argument started because somebody equated Jackson to Geno Smith.

 

That's just absurd.

 

Jackson is a hard worker, a film room junkie, and seems willing to learn and grow as a player.

Jackson is also a more mobile QB with a completely different style than Geno.

 

Does that mean he'll be able to adjust?

That's not possible to say.

 

He's also makes better on the fly decisions than tyrod and isn't afraid to throw into traffic or tight spaces.

 

But to say he's another Geno or Tyrod is just false.

[ndirish1978]

On 1/20/2018 at 5:28 PM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I think LJ is underrated as a passer, and has gotten a lot better at reading defenses and going through his progressions.  His footwork needs some help, which affects his accuracy at times, but this is something that can be fixed.

 

He has rare arm talent, good instincts, and very good pocket presence, IMO.  Very high ceiling, and the athleticism is merely a bonus that will surely reigned in in the NFL.  I’m not saying he’s a sure fire franchise guy, but I think the Tyrod 2.0 cliche is growing tiresome.

 

Except it's not a bad comparison. You're talking about 2 guys with elite physical skills who can't be consistently good at passing the ball. I understand you'd get tired of it if you're a fan, but this guy is far from a finished product as a passer. I'd rather have someone with a more limited physical skill set who completes >65% of his passes consistently. The guy's completion percentages in college are 54, 56, 60 and don't let that 60 fool you, he completed more passes for fewer yards his last year, which means we're looking at more short-range passes. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Except it's not a bad comparison. You're talking about 2 guys with elite physical skills who can't be consistently good at passing the ball. I understand you'd get tired of it if you're a fan, but this guy is far from a finished product as a passer. I'd rather have someone with a more limited physical skill set who completes >65% of his passes consistently. The guy's completion percentages in college are 54, 56, 60 and don't let that 60 fool you, he completed more passes for fewer yards his last year, which means we're looking at more short-range passes. 

 

I also would prefer a QB with more limited physical skills that completes >65% of his passes.  I disagree, however, with the TT comparison, as Jackson is a far better passer than Tyrod was coming out of college, and seemingly more physically gifted.  It also is fair to say, IMHO, that LJ has improved as a passer tremendously over the past three years.  Certainly not a finished product yet, as newly drafted college QB's rarely are, but I'm trying to think of QB's that may be available at picks 21-22 in the first round.  I do not want to trade up for a QB.  And if Jackson or Mayfield are there at 21-22, I think both of those players warrant consideration.

 

FTR...my QB's are ranked as follows in order of my preference:

 

1. Josh Rosen

2. Sam Darnold

3. Josh Allen

4. Baker Mayfield

5. Lamar Jackson

[ndirish1978]

1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I also would prefer a QB with more limited physical skills that completes >65% of his passes.  I disagree, however, with the TT comparison, as Jackson is a far better passer than Tyrod was coming out of college, and seemingly more physically gifted.  It also is fair to say, IMHO, that LJ has improved as a passer tremendously over the past three years.  Certainly not a finished product yet, as newly drafted college QB's rarely are, but I'm trying to think of QB's that may be available at picks 21-22 in the first round.  I do not want to trade up for a QB.  And if Jackson or Mayfield are there at 21-22, I think both of those players warrant consideration.

 

FTR...my QB's are ranked as follows in order of my preference:

 

1. Josh Rosen

2. Sam Darnold

3. Josh Allen

4. Baker Mayfield

5. Lamar Jackson

 

We have the same top 5, though I'd probably switch Allen and Mayfield. I am in the "trade everything to move up and get Darnold or Rosen camp, so we're probably at odds there. Can you recall the last time picking the fifth best QB in the class worked out? How many drafts provide us with more than 2 starting quality QBs?