"Brian Daboll could bridge gap between college, NFL games in Buffalo" (great article)

[Shaw66]

Thanks for posting this, Logic.   Like Elite Poster, I'm always doubtful about amateurs and their analysis, but every time I look at this stuff from Cover1 I think it's pretty solid.    

 

Having said that, I agree with Elite Poster that they're generally optimistic.  This article keeps talking about bridging the gap between college and the pros as if that's a good thing.  Who knows?   Daboll could fall flat on his face, again, as an NFL OC.   Maybe Belichick didn't want him back.  Who knows?

 

What I like about what they do is the video breakdown.   They do some solid thinking about what makes plays work and they show you.   It's always nicely done.   And he points out the great variety of formations, concepts and blocking schemes that Alabama employed, just in the Georgia game, and that's encouraging.   Daboll's offense likely will be complex.  

[Fadingpain]

Not a fan of this hire.  

 

Daboll's career trajectory doesn't look "right" for a good, successful coordinator.

 

He's done too much one step forward, one step back, for too long.

 

 

[Shaw66]

I hear you.   I have a slightly different approach.   

 

I think the job is so complicated, and there are so many variables (who's the coach, what kind of personnel do you have, who's the QB, what have you learned since your last job, etc.?) that I think there's very little to go on in predicting who's going to do a good job and who isn't.   

 

I don't like the trajectory, I like the Belichick and Saban pedigree.   

 

I don't know and won't have an opinion until next November.  

[Logic]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I hear you.   I have a slightly different approach.   

 

I think the job is so complicated, and there are so many variables (who's the coach, what kind of personnel do you have, who's the QB, what have you learned since your last job, etc.?) that I think there's very little to go on in predicting who's going to do a good job and who isn't.   

 

I don't like the trajectory, I like the Belichick and Saban pedigree.   

 

I don't know and won't have an opinion until next November.  

I realize that not all coaches who come from the Belichick/Saban "tree" succeed. Many don't. HOWEVER...To be employed by Belichick for that many years, you absolutely MUST be an incredibly hard and organized worker with a great attention to detail.

Saban (possibly the greatest college coach of all time) called Belichick (possibly the greatest pro coach of all time) and said "You HAVE TO hire this guy!". And he did. Furthermore, after Daboll left New England for greener pastures and didn't find them to be much greener at all, Belichick (who notoriously holds grudges) welcomed him back with open arms.

Finally, I don't see how it can hurt to have someone on our staff who has intricate knowledge of the New England offensive scheme, the tight end usage, strengths, and weaknesses in particular, and knows how Belichick thinks in certain situations. Daboll has also coached for all three other AFC East teams at one point or another, so he's familiar with the division.

I'll readily admit that this hire is not without risk. Few are. From where I'm sitting, though, I understand why the Bills made the move, and I'm cautiously optimistic. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I realize that not all coaches who come from the Belichick/Saban "tree" succeed. Many don't. HOWEVER...To be employed by Belichick for that many years, you absolutely MUST be an incredibly hard and organized worker with a great attention to detail.

Saban (possibly the greatest college coach of all time) called Belichick (possibly the greatest pro coach of all time) and said "You HAVE TO hire this guy!". And he did. Furthermore, after Daboll left New England for greener pastures and didn't find them to be much greener at all, Belichick (who notoriously holds grudges) welcomed him back with open arms.

Finally, I don't see how it can hurt to have someone on our staff who has intricate knowledge of the New England offensive scheme, the tight end usage, strengths, and weaknesses in particular, and knows how Belichick thinks in certain situations. Daboll has also coached for all three other AFC East teams at one point or another, so he's familiar with the division.

I'll readily admit that this hire is not without risk. Few are. From where I'm sitting, though, I understand why the Bills made the move, and I'm cautiously optimistic. 

 

 

....GREAT work on offering up this series of articles bud...much appreciated.....sure the hire is not without risk,  but having Belichick and Saban on your resume' won't hurt.....he's 42 with 20 varied years of coaching experience already......I'm more positive about him being creative and innovative versus Dennison who is 60 and seems pretty set in "his ways and his system"......versions of the E-P system were used here in the early 2000's, but I haven't checked yet on how the offense fared.......he may not be Marchibroda or Coryell, but maybe he gets a few more reps than Peterman before he's labeled "ANOTHER OBD bust" by the TBD famed "One & Done Gang".........stay tuned............

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....GREAT work on offering up this series of articles bud...much appreciated.....sure the hire is not without risk,  but having Belichick and Saban on your resume' won't hurt.....he's 42 with 20 varied years of coaching experience already......I'm more positive about him being creative and innovative versus Dennison who is 60 and seems pretty set in "his ways and his system"......versions of the E-P system were used here in the early 2000's, but I haven't checked yet on how the offense fared.......he may not be Marchibroda or Coryell, but maybe he gets a few more reps than Peterman before he's labeled "ANOTHER OBD bust" by the TBD famed "One & Done Gang".........stay tuned............

Right on. I'm pretty much at the "how could it get much worse?" phase with regards to the Bills offense. It was already so putrid in so many ways in 2017 that it's hard for me to imagine it getting worse. Now, that doesn't mean it WON'T get worse. It certainly could. It's just...it was almost historically bad as it is (ONE second half touchdown scored across the final SEVEN games!!!!), so just about any degree of change or innovation is bound to bring some improvement.

The number one thing I'm excited about is Daboll's recent college coaching experience. I've made it known that I am of the belief that college offense is a few years ahead of NFL offense in terms of cutting edge formations, concepts, and plays. The best NFL offenses this year (Eagles, Rams, Patriots, Chiefs) all made heavy use of RPOS, jet sweeps, spread passing, etc. Just the integration of those concepts alone should drag the Bills' offense kicking and screaming into the 21st century. That, in my opinion, is reason for optimism.

[BuffAlone]

On 1/19/2018 at 2:36 PM, kdiggz said:

because that's exactly what he is.  poor history as play caller, very basic plays, experience working with bad QB's.  we will hopefully be moving on from him once we get a real QB

Very basic plays, but with tons of options from that formation. It's a mis-match based offense. But yes, I think he needs a QB to run it.

Peterman can. I might be inclined to think that we only take a 1st/2nd round QB if he falls to us. Otherwise its TT or a FA this year, backing up Nasty Nate. While that's a bummer to me, maybe thats just the logical thing to do, as there is other roster building to be done

[Bangarang]

Hard to get impressed when his NFL track record is littered with horrible offenses. I’m sure someone will say “But wait Banagarang, he’s had nothing but poor talent and just look at the QBs he’s had to work with!”. That’s cool, remind me of our QBs again.

[Shaw66]

19 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

Very basic plays, but with tons of options from that formation. It's a mis-match based offense. But yes, I think he needs a QB to run it.

Peterman can. I might be inclined to think that we only take a 1st/2nd round QB if he falls to us. Otherwise its TT or a FA this year, backing up Nasty Nate. While that's a bummer to me, maybe thats just the logical thing to do, as there is other roster building to be done

Mismatch offense.   

 

That's what the Pats offense is.   When they spread the receivers, Brady throws to the mismatch just about all the time.  The wideout on the linebacker.   Gronk on the 5'10" back.  When you have your heavies in, they pass, when you have your quick defense in, they run.   They do it all day long.   

 

If that's what Daboll is bringing, I'm all for it.  

[Foxx]

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Mismatch offense.   

 

That's what the Pats offense is.   When they spread the receivers, Brady throws to the mismatch just about all the time.  The wideout on the linebacker.   Gronk on the 5'10" back.  When you have your heavies in, they pass, when you have your quick defense in, they run.   They do it all day long.   

 

If that's what Daboll is bringing, I'm all for it.  

the only problem with this is, we don't have Brady to run it. nor is there anyone currently on the roster who could run it. Tyrod couldn't read a defense to save his life.

 

were we to obtain Smith, that would be a good thing. i think Smith would be a natural in Daboll's O.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

the only problem with this is, we don't have Brady to run it. nor is there anyone currently on the roster who could run it. Tyrod couldn't read a defense to save his life.

 

were we to obtain Smith, that would be a good thing. i think Smith would be a natural in Daboll's O.

 

 

 

....Logic said Andy uses it so it would be a continuation for Alex.....I think OBD has a reasonable shot at Smith.......speculation is Andy is looking for a 2nd......Smith has one year left on his deal at $17 mil, so renting him for a 2nd is questionable....now if you could get him for a 3rd and an agreement in principle to add a year, that would be more palatable IMO....Smith under contract for two years to groom the new 1st round pick (I'm guessing Rudolph) and Peterman would be an ideal QB situation for Bills.......BTW, I think Chiefs are $7.5 mil over the cap right now..............

 

Year	Total Liabilities	Salary Cap (Projected)	Cap Room
2018	$188,647,405	$181,091,343	($7,556,062)

Edited January 20, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Elite Poster]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

It is true that they are optimistic in their reporting.

That being said, it wasn't really a stretch to think that an offensive system built on rollouts, moving pocket, and throwing on the run would play to Taylor's strengths. It didn't turn out that way, but it's not as if the prediction was way off base.

 

Rollouts, moving pocket, and throwing on the run was never Dennison's offense in Denver. I don't know where that keeps coming from. He's always loved building up to the play-action, but his offense was always tight or bunch formations and lining up under center - two of Tyrod's weaknesses. 

 

The only year this guy ever had "success", was Peyton's worst year as a QB where the entire team was anchored by the defense. 

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Rollouts, moving pocket, and throwing on the run was never Dennison's offense in Denver. I don't know where that keeps coming from. He's always loved building up to the play-action, but his offense was always tight or bunch formations and lining up under center - two of Tyrod's weaknesses. 

 

The only year this guy ever had "success", was Peyton's worst year as a QB where the entire team was anchored by the defense. 

I saw plenty of rollouts and play-action predicated on the outside zone this year. Plenty. By the last few weeks of the season, the first offensive play of nearly every game was a playaction roll to the right with a pass to the TE, FB or WR in the flats.

I agree that the preference for 3-step drops, snaps from under center, bunch formations, and timing-based offense were not fits for Taylor. I completely disagree that rollouts were not a big part of Dennison's bag of tricks. they absolutely were. Its one of the big reasons that he clung so stubbornly to the outside zone run even though it wasn't working: because so much of the playaction game in his playbook was predicated on said run.

[napmaster]

20 hours ago, Rise Up Lights said:

Except the part where he kicks his feet up on the table during a meeting. Seemed like a douchey kind of move.

 

It didn't seem to bother Belichick as they brought him back to NE a few years later.  Tells me enough.

 

I'm in the surprised camp that he chose Buffalo over the likely offer when the NE OC position opens in a few weeks.  Family being local seems to be a big factor, so kudos to the Bills for getting their man.

[Elite Poster]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

I saw plenty of rollouts and play-action predicated on the outside zone this year. Plenty. By the last few weeks of the season, the first offensive play of nearly every game was a playaction roll to the right with a pass to the TE, FB or WR in the flats.

I agree that the preference for 3-step drops, snaps from under center, bunch formations, and timing-based offense were not fits for Taylor. I completely disagree that rollouts were not a big part of Dennison's bag of tricks. they absolutely were. Its one of the big reasons that he clung so stubbornly to the outside zone run even though it wasn't working: because so much of the playaction game in his playbook was predicated on said run.

 

I was speaking more of Dennison's offense before coming to the Bills. Regardless, a lot of the changes to his offense were a direct result of the absolute horrendous fit of our personnel (mainly QB) to what he wanted to do. 

[3rdand12]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:21 PM, hemma said:

 

Good question.

Packing/vacation/house hunting?

setting up deck chairs on the beach

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

My understanding is that his family remained in western NY while he was involved in the football business. If that is the case this is a terrific situation for him to be in from a personal and business standpoint. 

and sweet play by Beane

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for posting this, Logic.   Like Elite Poster, I'm always doubtful about amateurs and their analysis, but every time I look at this stuff from Cover1 I think it's pretty solid.    

 

Having said that, I agree with Elite Poster that they're generally optimistic.  This article keeps talking about bridging the gap between college and the pros as if that's a good thing.  Who knows?   Daboll could fall flat on his face, again, as an NFL OC.   Maybe Belichick didn't want him back.  Who knows?

 

What I like about what they do is the video breakdown.   They do some solid thinking about what makes plays work and they show you.   It's always nicely done.   And he points out the great variety of formations, concepts and blocking schemes that Alabama employed, just in the Georgia game, and that's encouraging.   Daboll's offense likely will be complex.  

Cover1 has been quite helpful for us Bills fans since the inception. The site has developed nicely and rich with education for folks like me.

I am nearly ready to buy my first jersey. Either Tre White or Brian Daboll. just waiting for Bills to assign him a number.

 

Thanks Logic

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

setting up deck chairs on the beach

and sweet play by Beane

Cover1 has been quite helpful for us Bills fans since the inception. The site has developed nicely and rich with education for folks like me.

I am nearly ready to buy my first jersey. Either Tre White or Brian Daboll. just waiting for Bills to assign him a number.

 

Thanks Logic

 

...TT jerseys are on clearance........may be a better fit for your self-proclaimed "cheapskate" moniker....

[3rdand12]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...TT jerseys are on clearance........may be a better fit for your self-proclaimed "cheapskate" moniker....

Nope.

 I been thinking about a jersey for a couple decades now.
worried that if i purchased one. something bad would happen. seriously.

Would'a gotten a Fred Jackson  22 jersey or Kyle Williams 95 if i did not feel  the curse would immediately take effect. Maybe my fears are less of late.
and White really is just my kind of player with  all the dancing.

 

edit

 

 one of the curses anyways.

Edited January 20, 2018 by 3rdand12

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/19/2018 at 7:24 PM, Rise Up Lights said:

Thanks for that. It was pretty enjoyable. Except the part where he kicks his feet up on the table during a meeting. Seemed like a douchey kind of move.

 

I think that was the point - he did it after he'd already made the decision to "jump ship" but before anyone else in the Pats org knew.

It was a "posture of significance." 

 

Shows he can have a bit of attitude to him, but that's not necessarily a Bad Thing.Confused

On 1/19/2018 at 7:39 PM, Elite Poster said:

I would take anything from Cover 1 with a grain of salt. I don't know if you guys remember, but these guys were fawning over the possibilities of Tyrod in Dennison's offense when even "just a lame old fan" like me knew that was a disaster waiting to happen. It was never a fit but these guys hyped it up for the entire summer.

 

Oh, sure, sure, I disagree with his opinions all the time.  (I probably would have disagreed with your opinion last summer, I'm wrong all the time too)

But his X's and O's analysis is always on point, where I disagree sometimes is with his interpretations.

 

It's quite possible Daboll will fall on his face in his 4th OC shot.  But he has several things going for him:

1) He should know, no one better, exactly how much and what kind of preparation the NE organization puts into each season and each game.  One of the handicaps for a meh organization trying to claw its way up is, how do you learn to prepare and train like the champions?

2) He should know, no one better, how important a decent QB is to success in the NFL

3) He should be able to work with and make his offense accessible to a young just-drafted QB, better than a guy like Dennison who is years away from all that.