Ralph Wilson Quotes Himself While Firing John Butler

[BillnutinHouston]

Great, a thread about Ralph's foibles.   Now shall we discuss how the OP can't spell the name of his favorite NFL team?  Ha, hilarious.  (Rolls eyes...)

[BigDingus]

23 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Didn't watch the video, don't care.

 

Posthumously disparaging Ralph Wilson when the team is still in Buffalo and coming off a classic Buffalo hometown win is distasteful and pointless to me

 

He wasn't "disparaging Ralph Wilson" by saying he might not have had his full faculties together later in life. The rest of your comment is just confusing...

Would it be ok to disparage him if the team wasn't still in Buffalo, and/or not coming off a classic Buffalo hometown win? 

What if we came off a classic Buffalo hometown loss? Then could we disparage him? I don't get why the qualifiers at the end are even there...

[BuffaloRush]

54 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

Great, a thread about Ralph's foibles.   Now shall we discuss how the OP can't spell the name of his favorite NFL team?  Ha, hilarious.  (Rolls eyes...)

...or we could just starting gushing about great Ralph Wilson was an owner...especially from 2000-2014?

[Ol Dirty B]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No he was a grown man telling the world that he couldn't really describe what his duties as GM were at that point.

 

He was a fraud.  A guy from the Steelers personnel dept who should never been elevated to GM--least of all by a team as desperate for experience and good decision making as the Bills.

 

You don't think the fact that his role was probably largely undefined under the Pegulas had anything to do with that?

 

The franchise had appeared to be completely unorganized under the Pegulas at that point. If you think Whaley's responsibilities were clear at that point, you simply didn't pay attention for the couple years prior to that.

 

And even after the press conference. The Pegulas were a joke to everyone outside of WNY from that press conference forward.

 

I don't care what someone on the radio told you makes sense because the scouting resets after the draft. It looks absolutely horrible firing your gm the day after the draft. It's absolutely moronic and reflects the two years of disorganization that the Pegulas created prior to that point. 

2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

...or we could just starting gushing about great Ralph Wilson was an owner...especially from 2000-2014?

 

Or how about the 70s. This team was perennially bad under him. Outside of the 89-93 run, they sucked since the merger mostly.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Ol Dirty B

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You don't think the fact that his role was probably largely undefined under the Pegulas had anything to do with that?

 

The franchise had appeared to be completely unorganized under the Pegulas at that point. If you think Whaley's responsibilities were clear at that point, you simply didn't pay attention for the couple years prior to that.

 

And even after the press conference. The Pegulas were a joke to everyone outside of WNY from that press conference forward.

 

I don't care what someone on the radio told you makes sense because the scouting resets after the draft. It looks absolutely horrible firing your gm the day after the draft. It's absolutely moronic and reflects the two years of disorganization that the Pegulas created prior to that point. 

 

Or how about the 70s. This team was perennially bad under him. Outside of the 89-93 run, they sucked since the merger mostly.

 

His role was "probably undefined" by the new owner?  That's rich.  Look, Pegula depended on Whaley's knowledge and experience.  After the crapfest that was the Bills the first year he owned the team, I have no doubt that Pegula in fact issued an ultimatum that Doug and Rex had to turn it around the second year.  When they didn't, they were fired as threatened in the off season.  Pegula doesn't know much about football, but I bet he got tired of Doug's cravenness and ineptitude.

 

 

 

The guy on the radio was Doug Whaley, telling us all what he didn't know.

[Real McClappy]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His role was "probably undefined" by the new owner?  That's rich.  Look, Pegula depended on Whaley's knowledge and experience.  After the crapfest that was the Bills the first year he owned the team, I have no doubt that Pegula in fact issued an ultimatum that Doug and Rex had to turn it around the second year.  When they didn't, they were fired as threatened in the off season.  Pegula doesn't know much about football, but I bet he got tired of Doug's cravenness and ineptitude.

 

 

 

The guy on the radio was Doug Whaley, telling us all what he didn't know.

Doug was force feed Rex by Pegula though? How would that work out for any team or GM in the league in all honesty. Rex was a slob of a HC that ran Whaley out of town.

I bet Whaley has a ton of hindsight decisions/thoughts now after trying to cater to Rex's vision for the team with his own.

 

What's done is done. Go McD n Beane!

Edited December 15, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Doug was force feed Rex by Pegula though? How would that work out for any team or GM in the league in all honesty. Rex was a slob of a HC that ran Whaley out of town.

I bet Whaley has a ton of hindsight decisions/thoughts now after trying to cater to Rex's vision for the team with his own.

 

What's done is done. Go McD n Beane!

 

No.. I know there are a certain number of posters who still go with this narrative (yours is the most extreme of those takes). 

 

Doug was all aboard the Rex train and he said so.  If he was dead set against it, there is no reason to believe Pegula would absolutely insist on Rex over Whaley's recommendation.

 

And rumors had it that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson--an even worse pick than Rex.  So, really, Whaley was a goof all around.  And he never accepted his mistakes.  Sat there pouting in that last press conference. 

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No.. I know there are a certain number of posters who still go with this narrative (yours is the most extreme of those takes). 

 

Doug was all aboard the Rex train and he said so.  If he was dead set against it, there is no reason to believe Pegula would absolutely insist on Rex over Whaley's recommendation.

 

And rumors had it that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson--an even worse pick than Rex.  So, really, Whaley was a goof all around.  And he never accepted his mistakes.  Sat there pouting in that last press conference. 

 

This simply makes no sense.

 

Whaley was instrumental in building a defense that would imminently fail under Rex Ryan's defensive philosophy.

 

There is no way, logically, that Whaley was on board with Rex being hired.  Zero.

[Real McClappy]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No.. I know there are a certain number of posters who still go with this narrative (yours is the most extreme of those takes). 

 

Doug was all aboard the Rex train and he said so.  If he was dead set against it, there is no reason to believe Pegula would absolutely insist on Rex over Whaley's recommendation.

 

And rumors had it that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson--an even worse pick than Rex.  So, really, Whaley was a goof all around.  And he never accepted his mistakes.  Sat there pouting in that last press conference. 

When your main Boss hires your Boss or direct manager, what say do you have in the decision? None really.  All you can do is work with the cards that are dealt to you and hope the big guy made the right decision.  If the decision he made is wrong (Pegula hiring Rex) it directly resembles or casts off to your performance as well.

Not sure how that is extreme? It's way to logical IMHO. Call it a hot take but I don't see it that way at all.

 

NFL standard chain of command was broke correct in hiring decisions as well.

Owner ->

GM ->

HC->

OC/DC->

on and on......

Edited December 15, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

This simply makes no sense.

 

Whaley was instrumental in building a defense that would imminently fail under Rex Ryan's defensive philosophy.

 

There is no way, logically, that Whaley was on board with Rex being hired.  Zero.

 

You're listing that as an accomplishment?

 

As for him being dead against the hiring of Rex....well, you're making that up.  If he was against the EJ pick (then went on to say how great the pick was and how EJ had the "it" factor) and he was against the Rex pick (and then went on and on and on GUSHING about the pick in a way that bordered on homoeroticism--not that there's anything wrong with that)....then he must have been the least forceful GM the Bills have ever had--and a fantastic actor, or maybe he was just happy to be there, as they say.

 

Maybe Whaley wanted Jackson (again, a huge error in judgment in itself), but he was on board with Rex (where's the clear evidence it did not go down as Whaley himself said of that choice??)...until After season one. 

 

How many of Whaley's top draft picks are on the roster Sunday in a divisional game with playoff implications in week 14 for the Bills? 

[Gugny]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're listing that as an accomplishment?

 

As for him being dead against the hiring of Rex....well, you're making that up.  If he was against the EJ pick (then went on to say how great the pick was and how EJ had the "it" factor) and he was against the Rex pick (and then went on and on and on GUSHING about the pick in a way that bordered on homoeroticism--not that there's anything wrong with that)....then he must have been the least forceful GM the Bills have ever had--and a fantastic actor, or maybe he was just happy to be there, as they say.

 

Maybe Whaley wanted Jackson (again, a huge error in judgment in itself), but he was on board with Rex (where's the clear evidence it did not go down as Whaley himself said of that choice??)...until After season one. 

 

How many of Whaley's top draft picks are on the roster Sunday in a divisional game with playoff implications in week 14 for the Bills? 

 

Yes, I'm listing that as an accomplishment.  Anyone who watched the games in our last winning season would agree, too.

 

I'm not saying that I know, for a fact, that he was against the Rex hire.

 

I'm saying that only a complete moron would think it's a hire that Whaley would endorse.

[Nihilarian]

Ralph Wilson told John Butler, "if I can't hire you then I'll fire you"!  Butler at that time was in talks with the Chargers about becoming their new GM and we all know how frugal Wilson was so he wasn't going to get into a bidding war over his GM.  Wilson thought he found Polian so I'd guess he thought he could find another equal to Butler. However, It was Chuck Knox who brought his director of scouting Norm Pollom with him from the Rams and Pollom endorsed Polian to be hired.

 

After firing Butler Wilson's next move was to hire Tom Donahoe after he was just fired from the Steelers as Donahoe had just lost a power struggle with Pittsburgh HC Bill Cowher. From Here on out it seemed like Wilson only wanted to hire has-beens, rejects and people not really qualified to be GM's. 

 

This new owner looks to have more than enough money to hire the best and brightest and he will need to do so with an owner like Robert Kraft owning the Patriots. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Yes, I'm listing that as an accomplishment.  Anyone who watched the games in our last winning season would agree, too.

 

I'm not saying that I know, for a fact, that he was against the Rex hire.

 

I'm saying that only a complete moron would think it's a hire that Whaley would endorse.

 

 

So when Whaley said this:

 

“For me his (Ryan's) philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships."

 

And this:

 

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

And this:

 

“It was funny because at the start of the process Kim and Terry asked me who my favorite was and I said, ‘You can’t go in with any preconceived notions of what you want and what you like. You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

 

And this:

 

“The first interview you do more philosophy, scheme, coaching staff and the second interview [recall this was the interview that Pegula admitted he was bored nearly to the point of falling asleep] was more the day-to-day operations of how he runs his program,” said Whaley. “It goes all the way from who sits in first class on team travel to how he’s going to dole out fines, to meetings and scheduling. So if he gets the job we can hit the ground running. I know what to expect from him and help anticipate the things that he’ll need.”

 

...that he is lying in every quote?  (it's a yes/no question).

 

That "only a moron" would believe his statement about Ryan's philosophy of building a team was the same as his?

 

That he really wanted Hue Jackson, but instead of just saying that, he told Kim Pegula to go in with an open mind but when it came to Rex.."you just know?

 

You're argument is not convincing.  Unless you have something...

 

 

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His role was "probably undefined" by the new owner?  That's rich.  Look, Pegula depended on Whaley's knowledge and experience.  After the crapfest that was the Bills the first year he owned the team, I have no doubt that Pegula in fact issued an ultimatum that Doug and Rex had to turn it around the second year.  When they didn't, they were fired as threatened in the off season.  Pegula doesn't know much about football, but I bet he got tired of Doug's cravenness and ineptitude.

 

 

 

The guy on the radio was Doug Whaley, telling us all what he didn't know.

 

Yea... I would say a GM who couldn't hire his coach, or confidently say who had control over the 53 man roster probably had undefined roles... I'd think that's pretty simple to infer. 

 

The fact that the Tyrod issue last year even came down to having to go to Terry shows the organization had no organization. If you think they looked like they knew what they were doing, wow.

15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So when Whaley said this:

 

“For me his (Ryan's) philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships."

 

And this:

 

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

And this:

 

“It was funny because at the start of the process Kim and Terry asked me who my favorite was and I said, ‘You can’t go in with any preconceived notions of what you want and what you like. You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

 

And this:

 

“The first interview you do more philosophy, scheme, coaching staff and the second interview [recall this was the interview that Pegula admitted he was bored nearly to the point of falling asleep] was more the day-to-day operations of how he runs his program,” said Whaley. “It goes all the way from who sits in first class on team travel to how he’s going to dole out fines, to meetings and scheduling. So if he gets the job we can hit the ground running. I know what to expect from him and help anticipate the things that he’ll need.”

 

...that he is lying in every quote?  (it's a yes/no question).

 

That "only a moron" would believe his statement about Ryan's philosophy of building a team was the same as his?

 

That he really wanted Hue Jackson, but instead of just saying that, he told Kim Pegula to go in with an open mind but when it came to Rex.."you just know?

 

You're argument is not convincing.  Unless you have something...

 

 

 

 

 

Do you live in Buffalo? I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth discussing things with you. Because if you're someone who  moved out of the area, I'd get being so out of touch. But if you are in WNY, it's just not even worth the time.

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're listing that as an accomplishment?

 

As for him being dead against the hiring of Rex....well, you're making that up.  If he was against the EJ pick (then went on to say how great the pick was and how EJ had the "it" factor) and he was against the Rex pick (and then went on and on and on GUSHING about the pick in a way that bordered on homoeroticism--not that there's anything wrong with that)....then he must have been the least forceful GM the Bills have ever had--and a fantastic actor, or maybe he was just happy to be there, as they say.

 

Maybe Whaley wanted Jackson (again, a huge error in judgment in itself), but he was on board with Rex (where's the clear evidence it did not go down as Whaley himself said of that choice??)...until After season one. 

 

How many of Whaley's top draft picks are on the roster Sunday in a divisional game with playoff implications in week 14 for the Bills? 

 

It's not an accomplishment... But it shows how the organization wasn't structured properly. You're building the argument against yourself. Just think for a moment about what other people are saying

Edited December 16, 2017 by Ol Dirty B

[Gigs]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:58 AM, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

making fun of a dead man...priceless

Common theme:

 

Old people are uptight and will complain about anything. Get over yourself

[JohnC]

21 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Ralph Wilson told John Butler, "if I can't hire you then I'll fire you"!  Butler at that time was in talks with the Chargers about becoming their new GM and we all know how frugal Wilson was so he wasn't going to get into a bidding war over his GM.  Wilson thought he found Polian so I'd guess he thought he could find another equal to Butler. However, It was Chuck Knox who brought his director of scouting Norm Pollom with him from the Rams and Pollom endorsed Polian to be hired.

 

After firing Butler Wilson's next move was to hire Tom Donahoe after he was just fired from the Steelers as Donahoe had just lost a power struggle with Pittsburgh HC Bill Cowher. From Here on out it seemed like Wilson only wanted to hire has-beens, rejects and people not really qualified to be GM's. 

 

This new owner looks to have more than enough money to hire the best and brightest and he will need to do so with an owner like Robert Kraft owning the Patriots. 

It's illegal and unethical to be in talks with another team while you are under contract. That's not to say that it isn't often surreptitiously done through back channel intermediaries. The owner was old and irascible but he wasn't dumb. He had an inkling what was going on. That's why he fired Butler and felt that Butler betrayed him and acted inappropriately. If Butler wasn't going to sign, and he had not intention to do so, he should have straight-forward told the owner instead of stringing him along.  This is not so much a question of what you do but how but how you go about doing it. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Yea... I would say a GM who couldn't hire his coach, or confidently say who had control over the 53 man roster probably had undefined roles... I'd think that's pretty simple to infer. 

 

The fact that the Tyrod issue last year even came down to having to go to Terry shows the organization had no organization. If you think they looked like they knew what they were doing, wow.

 

Do you live in Buffalo? I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth discussing things with you. Because if you're someone who  moved out of the area, I'd get being so out of touch. But if you are in WNY, it's just not even worth the time.

 

It's not an accomplishment... But it shows how the organization wasn't structured properly. You're building the argument against yourself. Just think for a moment about what other people are saying

 

I live in Rochester.  I'm not sure how that has anything to do with this discussion.

 

I have posted extensive quotes that were made at that time by Whaley about the Rex hiring.  You cannot not dispute these quotes which describe Whaley's role and input and his level of satisfaction of the outcome of the choice.

 

Look, if you want to think that Whaley never wanted Rex, that he was a really good GM who was held back at every turn by Pegula, Rex, Kim, Buddy Nix, etc......well,  I can't stop you.  All evidence suggests that yours is a position at odds with the facts at the time.

 

But carry on.

[MJS]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Do you live in Buffalo? I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth discussing things with you. Because if you're someone who  moved out of the area, I'd get being so out of touch. But if you are in WNY, it's just not even worth the time.

 

Wow. That guy just provided paragraph after paragraph of support for his opinion and this is how you respond? I guess you really have nothing to refute his opinion and must resort to insults.

[BadLandsMeanie]

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:37 AM, Gugny said:

 

This simply makes no sense.

 

Whaley was instrumental in building a defense that would imminently fail under Rex Ryan's defensive philosophy.

 

There is no way, logically, that Whaley was on board with Rex being hired.  Zero.

 

On 12/15/2017 at 12:18 PM, Gugny said:

 

Yes, I'm listing that as an accomplishment.  Anyone who watched the games in our last winning season would agree, too.

 

I'm not saying that I know, for a fact, that he was against the Rex hire.

 

I'm saying that only a complete moron would think it's a hire that Whaley would endorse.

I am noticing that the things you say, just sort of are the things you say. They don't seem to "go along" with anything. They are free of worldly factual content, like a Picasso painting sort of. People do not have eyes for example, on their belly buttons. In your abstract posts, they do. I think you posts are like that. And I enjoy them for what they are.

 

But it is taking it a bit too far when you insist that anyone who states that people do not have eyes on their belly buttons, are morons. That is the only point I would choose to make to you.

 

"

Nevertheless Whaley was taken by how parallel Ryan’s approach to winning in the NFL was to his own principles of developing a perennial contender.

“For me his philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships.

 

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

Not long after the interview with Ryan had concluded the Pegulas along with Brandon and Whaley had reached a consensus rather quickly.

“He came in and really elevated himself to the top position where we said, ‘Hey we’ve got to have another talk with this guy,’” said Kim Pegula of Ryan.

“It was funny because at the start of the process Kim and Terry asked me who my favorite was and I said, ‘You can’t go in with any preconceived notions of what you want and what you like. You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

 

"“The way we looked at it with where our team is we’re scratching at the door and knocking at the door and we want to kick that door down,” said Whaley. “So we didn’t want a guy who was learning on the job. We wanted a guy who has been there and done that before and not have those missteps of a first-time head coach. It all came together with Rex.”"

 

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/19b740de-0ca3-4dd6-8fdc-58c0cf013fa2