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Over 29 years of fanhood

Armchair OC question....

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We’ve heard opponents talk about forcing Tyrod to stay in pocket, “make him be a Pocket qb”. Why do we accept by trying to insist he is a better  pocket QB ?   They’re right, he’s dangerous out there. Gotta be a way to get him time out of pocket. Has the arm to hit the throws. 

 

Get him out of the pocket! 

 

I mean Tyrod would’ve hit cadet on that wildcat throw. Build a Joe Webb offense around Tyrod... or at least start there. 

 

 

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What they are really saying is " we're not going to knife in the backfield like we would against most QBs, because he will hurt us. We're going to keep our DE's wide and tell them not to let him out of the pocket, because we don't think he will throw the football. If he does it will be late , or we will sack him. " You can't really negate that as an OC, except by one way. IF Tyrod starts making throws from the pocket with timing and accuracy. If he does that, well then he's Aaron Rodgers. 

Edited by Boatdrinks
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2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

We’ve heard opponents talk about forcing Tyrod to stay in pocket, “make him be a Pocket qb”. Why do we accept by trying to insist he is a better  pocket QB ?   They’re right, he’s dangerous out there. Gotta be a way to get him time out of pocket. Has the arm to hit the throws. 

 

Get him out of the pocket! 

 

I mean Tyrod would’ve hit cadet on that wildcat throw. Build a Joe Webb offense around Tyrod... or at least start there. 

 

 

Not finding ways to utilize Tyrod's talent and legs and make defenses have to cheat against the threat of that has been a constant criticism of Rick Dennison all year long.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Defenders just say that after they've had a good day against a running quarterback. They usually don't know what they're talking about. Just a vague reference to blitzes.

That's not true at all. It's a gameplan. They keep the ends wide and at home, giving him nowhere to run. They're aren't referring to blitzes, but rather keeping Tyrod contained. 

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5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

That's not true at all. It's a gameplan. They keep the ends wide and at home, giving him nowhere to run. They're aren't referring to blitzes, but rather keeping Tyrod contained. 

But for this specific year was it the Saints that said that? IIRC they blitzed the living **** out of Taylor. The Patriots could do something like that because their all pro corners had a field day against the likes of Thompson, Holmes, Zay.

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Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

But for this specific year was it the Saints that said that? IIRC they blitzed the living **** out of Taylor. The Patriots could do something like that because their all pro corners had a field day against the likes of Thompson, Holmes, Zay.

They may have blitzed, but they made a concerted effort to keep their ends wide and at home. Peyton talked bout it after the game as well. They saw the damage Tyrod did to the Raiders when they flushed him out of the pocket. It doesn't mean you don't rush or even blitz at times. It's more about keeping the DEs disciplined at the edges of the pocket. If they commit inside and Taylor makes them miss, then he rolls out and can reset his feet or run. Most pressure from NO and the Jets was middle pressure. 

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Just now, Boatdrinks said:

They may have blitzed, but they made a concerted effort to keep their ends wide and at home. Peyton talked bout it after the game as well. They saw the damage Tyrod did to the Raiders when they flushed him out of the pocket. It doesn't mean you don't rush or even blitz at times. It's more about keeping the DEs disciplined at the edges of the pocket. If they commit inside and Taylor makes them miss, then he rolls out and can reset his feet or run. Most pressure from NO and the Jets was middle pressure. 

yeah I can see that. The inside pressures with DEs contained have been a killer.

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1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

What they are really saying is " we're not going to knife in the backfield like we would against most QBs, because he will hurt us. We're going to keep our DE's wide and tell them not to let him out of the pocket, because we don't think he will throw the football. If he does it will be late , or we will sack him. " You can't really negate that as an OC, except by one way. IF Tyrod starts making throws from the pocket with timing and accuracy. If he does that, well then he's Aaron Rodgers. 

 

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

We’ve heard opponents talk about forcing Tyrod to stay in pocket, “make him be a Pocket qb”. Why do we accept by trying to insist he is a better  pocket QB ?   They’re right, he’s dangerous out there. Gotta be a way to get him time out of pocket. Has the arm to hit the throws. 

 

Get him out of the pocket! 

 

I mean Tyrod would’ve hit cadet on that wildcat throw. Build a Joe Webb offense around Tyrod... or at least start there. 

 

 

The reason you can't really build a wildcat offense around TT is that he is much smaller than Joe Webb, so his body can't hold up over a full season.  Webb is 6-4, 230.  TT 6-1, 215.  I'm not sure Webb would even hold up with regular use in that type of offense (see RGIII).  On the other hand, I would like to see them get him moving more.  We certainly don't want him being a pocket QB, but we don't want him to play like an RB either.

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8 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

They may have blitzed, but they made a concerted effort to keep their ends wide and at home. Peyton talked bout it after the game as well. They saw the damage Tyrod did to the Raiders when they flushed him out of the pocket. It doesn't mean you don't rush or even blitz at times. It's more about keeping the DEs disciplined at the edges of the pocket. If they commit inside and Taylor makes them miss, then he rolls out and can reset his feet or run. Most pressure from NO and the Jets was middle pressure. 

 

Someone pointed out the RPO play Indy ran.  That's an interesting play. 

 

More shotgun or pistol is needed here! 

 

8 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

yeah I can see that. The inside pressures with DEs contained have been a killer.

 

Has to be a way to break that. 

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7 hours ago, dulles said:

 

The reason you can't really build a wildcat offense around TT is that he is much smaller than Joe Webb, so his body can't hold up over a full season.  Webb is 6-4, 230.  TT 6-1, 215.  I'm not sure Webb would even hold up with regular use in that type of offense (see RGIII).  On the other hand, I would like to see them get him moving more.  We certainly don't want him being a pocket QB, but we don't want him to play like an RB either.

 

Probably true. But is there any question this offense now is producing the worst results with Tyrod we’ve seen in 3 seasons? 

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15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Probably true. But is there any question this offense now is producing the worst results with Tyrod we’ve seen in 3 seasons? 

 

It really seems like scheme. We all know Tyrod is not a good pocket passer. Hes best when on the move and a threat to run using option playa out of a spread formation or pistol. I guess Dennison cant or doesnt want to scheme to his strengths and rather force him into a style hes not good at

 

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Assuming TT and Rico both stay, I'd hire Roman as a consultant and have him work with Rico on developing an offense that best utilizes TT's skill set.  

 

Rico studied the tape, but clearly didn't grasp what made last year's offense tick.  I think part of it is that Roman's plays and Lynn's play-calling forced D's to account for two runners on every play: TT and Shady.  

 

This year's O is anemic.  

Edited by hondo in seattle

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1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

Someone pointed out the RPO play Indy ran.  That's an interesting play. 

 

More shotgun or pistol is needed here! 

 

 

Has to be a way to break that. 

Short slants.

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1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Assuming TT and Rico both stay, I'd hire Roman as a consultant and have him work with Rico on developing an offense that best utilizes TT's skill set.  

 

Rico studied the tape, but clearly didn't grasp what made last year's offense tick.  I think part of it is that Roman's plays and Lynn's play-calling forced D's to account for two runners on every play: TT and Shady.  

 

This year's O is anemic.  

Exactly! They didn’t light it up last year either, But everything is significantly down... 

 

passing and qb running ypg, ypa, td%, yp qb rush... every single metric. 

 

It’s not like someone just figured him out finally. 

 

Whatever constraints the prior offense was was able to contend with, Rico exacerbates it it the opposite direction. He so stubborn forcing Tyrod under center.

 

- Why isn’t he dropping deeper like Russell Wilson? 

 

- where are the designed pass plays where the whole pocket moves

 

- bubble screen to Tate anyone??? It’s a travesty that type of open field runner doesn’t get offensive touches

 

This philosophy of trying to make players overcome weaknesses to preserve the scheme is difficult to understand.

 

And Tolbert running parallel to the line??  Is there a anyone who thinks that is a good idea? 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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1 hour ago, FearLess Price said:

 

It really seems like scheme. We all know Tyrod is not a good pocket passer. Hes best when on the move and a threat to run using option playa out of a spread formation or pistol. I guess Dennison cant or doesnt want to scheme to his strengths and rather force him into a style hes not good at

 

If this was the original plan then why the hell did we pick him up for 1 more year? Its like they said to themselves " we know Tyrod is not the future so let's calm the fan base by playing him one last year and shove a system he'll fail at down his throat. Brilliant?

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By not blitzing and rushing the passer heavy he is forced to go through his progressing and find the holes in the zones.  He struggles with that part of the game.  i think forming a traditonal pocket around Taylor doesnt make alot of sense.  Gb and Seatle almost block straight unless the edge rusher tries to go around than they get pushed behind the qb.  He struggles with anticipation throws and tight windows.  3rd and long he struggles thrid and medium or less he is very good at.  With Mccoy it is easy to always run on first down I thinki they should get Taylor in rythem and pass more on first and second down.

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4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If this was the original plan then why the hell did we pick him up for 1 more year? Its like they said to themselves " we know Tyrod is not the future so let's calm the fan base by playing him one last year and shove a system he'll fail at down his throat. Brilliant?

 

Like we’ve seen so many times before, I think these OCs are so arrogant about their own scheme brilliance they assume they can coach a misfit into a fit... 

 

just a guess 

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Taylor keeps the team a float.  Last offseason I said the same thing.  He is an above replace Qb.  Not the next level of premier starter or Franchise qb.  However, he is not a fringe starter or backup quality.  He is solidly average.  Buffalo over the past 17 years have had much worst Qb play.  His contract is not terrible.  They wont be able to find similar production for similar money on the open market.  if they Get Cousin i think they can trade Taylor for a Defensive player or mid rd pick.  If they miss out on Darnold or Rosen they have a vetran that can lead the team until Allen, Jackson or whatever Qb they pick is ready to go.  If the rookie starts pushing him in camp they could pull the eagles and ship off Taylor mid camp to a team that lost there Qb or whos Qb wont be ready week 1.  IE Houston or Philly.  

Edited by Mat68

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37 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Taylor keeps the team a float.  Last offseason I said the same thing.  He is an above replace Qb.  Not the next level of premier starter or Franchise qb.  However, he is not a fringe starter or backup quality.  He is solidly average.  Buffalo over the past 17 years have had much worst Qb play.  His contract is not terrible.  They wont be able to find similar production for similar money on the open market.  if they Get Cousin i think they can trade Taylor for a Defensive player or mid rd pick.  If they miss out on Darnold or Rosen they have a vetran that can lead the team until Allen, Jackson or whatever Qb they pick is ready to go.  If the rookie starts pushing him in camp they could pull the eagles and ship off Taylor mid camp to a team that lost there Qb or whos Qb wont be ready week 1.  IE Houston or Philly.  

 

I think all of that could be true.  Problem is in this offense, that floatation device is inadequate to score points.  Worst PPG in 7 years. Off like 5 ppg from last season 

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Either Taylor stays in the pocket and completes a 4 yard throw. Or he escapes the pocket, runs around and then completes the 4 yard throw.

 

And we’re all stuck in the middle.

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On 2017-12-12 at 11:27 PM, Fadingpain said:

Not finding ways to utilize Tyrod's talent and legs and make defenses have to cheat against the threat of that has been a constant criticism of Rick Dennison all year long.

 

 

Get Spiller into space 

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On 12/12/2017 at 11:48 PM, Boatdrinks said:

They may have blitzed, but they made a concerted effort to keep their ends wide and at home. Peyton talked bout it after the game as well. They saw the damage Tyrod did to the Raiders when they flushed him out of the pocket. It doesn't mean you don't rush or even blitz at times. It's more about keeping the DEs disciplined at the edges of the pocket. If they commit inside and Taylor makes them miss, then he rolls out and can reset his feet or run. Most pressure from NO and the Jets was middle pressure. 

It's also exactly what the Jets did when we flopped against them. Tony Romo pointed it out several times. They made sure the ends kept him in, brought the pressure up the middle, and always had him accounted for whenever he tried play action and rolling out of the pocket.

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How come Tony Romo doesn’t have more rings than tom Brady?   🤔

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