Alright, who wants a dome?

[WhoTom]

17 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

I wonder if there is a rule about that.  Could the Bills for example open the roof in a December snowstorm against the fish or another warm weather or indoor team, but close it for a team that plays well in it?

 

I don't know if this is true for all retractable roofs (and I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything), but Toronto's roof can't be opened and closed during the winter months. The cold temperatures mess with the mechanical systems, so once it's closed for the winter, it stays closed until late spring.

 

The laws of physics supersede NFL rules.

[jrober38]

15 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

I don't know if this is true for all retractable roofs (and I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything), but Toronto's roof can't be opened and closed during the winter months. The cold temperatures mess with the mechanical systems, so once it's closed for the winter, it stays closed until late spring.

 

The laws of physics supersede NFL rules.

 

Rogers Centre has no drainage system.

 

If it rains, or it snows, there's nowhere for the water to go.

[CodeMonkey]

29 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

I don't know if this is true for all retractable roofs (and I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything), but Toronto's roof can't be opened and closed during the winter months. The cold temperatures mess with the mechanical systems, so once it's closed for the winter, it stays closed until late spring.

 

The laws of physics supersede NFL rules.

Do Roger and Jerrah know about this?

 

[CountDorkula]

22 hours ago, Heitz said:

Question:  who here has seen a game in a dome recently?

 

Just curious if anyone has actually seen an NFL game in one of the modern indoor stadiums (and, no, Toronto does NOT count - ever)?  Just lots of "the atmosphere is stale" comments, but folks in Indy and Minny seem to like their new homes.

 

Like I said, was in Minny's stadium (though not for a football game) and it was beautiful, definitely made me change my opinion of what an indoor stadium could be.

 

Just curious if everyone is going off of actual game day experiences, or off of gut...

I saw Bills/FAlcons.

 

That dome was awesome, loud and did not have that "dead atmosphere"

[Mat68]

On 12/11/2017 at 7:34 PM, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Fair enough, but the argument was presented that other events will help bring in revenue. True, but I was simply pointing out that it won’t make a dent in the cost to the community.

 

If anything, they would need to add on a “convention center”(which downtown Buffalo needs more than a stadium) to a new stadium in order

to realistically get multi-use out of it, not necessarily for the revenue but for the appearance of usage.

True.  What is not looked at is what would be the economical impact of the region if the Bills leave.  Sure the State and county are not getting their money back for paying for a new stadium.  They will take a loss if the franchise leave.  Would you rather take a loss and have the Bills or take a loss when the Bills leave.  Keeping the Bills and having a better game day experience inside the stadium for the fans would be a net gain for anyone that likes the Bills or wants the city to thrive.  

[BillsfaninChicago]

I have been to Indianapolis’ dome twice to watch the Bills play the Colts to be honest it was very quiet relative to the other stadiums I have been too. May just be a more subdued fan bas but my buddy made the comment that he felt like he was in church.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/12/2017 at 12:20 PM, WhoTom said:

 

I don't know if this is true for all retractable roofs (and I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything), but Toronto's roof can't be opened and closed during the winter months. The cold temperatures mess with the mechanical systems, so once it's closed for the winter, it stays closed until late spring.

 

The laws of physics supersede NFL rules.

 

....changed rule for 2015, but change became permanent.............

 

PHOENIX – For one year (2015), the NFL has changed its policy on opening and closing a retractable roof during games. The rule will have no effect on the Texans because they would never open the NRG Stadium roof during the game

 

For one year only, amend the NFL’s Retractable Roof Policy to read (new language underlined): Until 90 minutes prior to kickoff, the home club will have the authority to determine if the retractable roof (“roof”) and/or the retractable wall (“wall”) should be open or closed for each preseason and regular season game. The home club may choose to open the roof and/or wall for some games and not for others.

 

“The decision to open or close the wall is independent of the election the club makes for opening or closing its stadium’s retractable roof. In the event a game is started with the roof and/or wall in the open position and it is closed pursuant to the procedures set forth below, the roof and/or wall must thereafter remain in the closed position for the duration of the game.”

Edited December 13, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[TheFunPolice]

Retractable roof would be a waste because in any type of weather it would be closed.

 

Football should be played outside, in the elements. Domes are dumb, and they are ridiculously expensive. There is no need for a massive airplane hangar in Buffalo that will sit empty and look like the games are being played in a basement during the season. Detroit's stadium is awful. Every game looks like it is being played at midnight in a garage.

 

Minnesota has a cool stadium with a wall that opens and a transparent roof. That's neat, but still I think outdoor football is part of Bills tradition and identity. Imagine Green Bay with a dome. Yuck!

 

Just because you build a dome doesn't mean you can magically charge double the price for a ticket here. The NFL is already having major attendance issues with stadiums 1/3 empty. There just isn't a return on the dome investment. The Super Bowl is not coming here if you build a dome.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...pretty funny yet pathetic stuff......plenty of posts about our "clueless owner".....hell there was even a thread asking whether "Pegula should cash in"....and now in a momentary lapse or perhaps a bi-polar episode, the guy should pony up $750-1 billion for a retractable joint.......got it.........

[BuffaloHokie13]

Need a dome to even have a chance at a Super Bowl, which would be fantastic for the city. Retractable would be my choice so they could choose to have a weather game if they want.

 

More important than the dome though, get a natural grass field and put heated coils underneath.

[TheFunPolice]

When has a team ever opened a retractable roof in any type of weather?

 

It seems like it would cause all types of problems. Moisture trapped in an enclosed space is never good.

[cba fan]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Retractable roof would be a waste because in any type of weather it would be closed.

 

Football should be played outside, in the elements. Domes are dumb, and they are ridiculously expensive. There is no need for a massive airplane hangar in Buffalo that will sit empty and look like the games are being played in a basement during the season. Detroit's stadium is awful. Every game looks like it is being played at midnight in a garage.

 

Minnesota has a cool stadium with a wall that opens and a transparent roof. That's neat, but still I think outdoor football is part of Bills tradition and identity. Imagine Green Bay with a dome. Yuck!

 

Just because you build a dome doesn't mean you can magically charge double the price for a ticket here. The NFL is already having major attendance issues with stadiums 1/3 empty. There just isn't a return on the dome investment. The Super Bowl is not coming here if you build a dome.

Detroit dome is one of the best stadiums in the NFL. Great atmosphere. Cool incorporation of old brick building as suites/clubs on top floors and concession area on bottom on one side. Nothing like getting in line with outside temp at "zero" and walking in to a game decided by skill, not weather chance luck.

 

How soon we forget how 50k Buffalo fans brought the noise and the hammer during the blizzard game moved to Detroit.

Edited December 13, 2017 by cba fan

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

When has a team ever opened a retractable roof in any type of weather?

 

It seems like it would cause all types of problems. Moisture trapped in an enclosed space is never good.

As far as I know most retractables need to have a decision made prior to game time and then they can't change it during the game. Surely it's rained a few of the times they decided to keep it open...

[Punching Bag]

On 12/11/2017 at 7:11 PM, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Got any math on what kinda dent a handful of events every year puts in a billion dollar price tag?

 

I’m no economist, but the professional ones all agree, it’s not much and almost all cities will never see a ROI on any pro stadium, no matter what.

 

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

 

“NFL stadiums do not generate significant local economic growth, and the incremental tax revenue is not sufficient to cover any significant financial contribution by the city,” said Noll, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. He has written articles and books and given talks on the public financing of sports stadiums.

 

Go ahead and Google for yourself. There’s plenty more stark evidence out there.

 

 

 

But there is enough financial money to fund such studies by opponents of stadiums.

On 12/12/2017 at 10:59 AM, May Day 10 said:

I think the cheapest/easiest course of action is in place.  Parking, routes out of the stadium/area really arent that bad, doesnt take up potentially valuable downtown space, etc.  However, I think Pegula is likely looking at any way feasible for downtown to link his sports and entertainment empire.  If I had to bet, I would say most likely some sort of Ford Field style dome to the South-East area of the arena/cobblestone/downtown.

 

The cheapest/easiest course of action is to create a light rail link to Orchard Park with express lanes for buses to and from train.  The train can go to area which Pegula has significant interest in hotels / parking / bars.  There used to be AMTRAK deals for games and shuttles.

[Augie]

In order of preference:

1) Open 

2) Retractable 

3) Sterile Dome

 

Even Atlnata’s cool new retractable dome, while very cool, just lacks something for a football game. You know if the weather is even iffy it will be closed. I get why they do it, they can have a lot of major events including football, Final Fours, etc. If that’s what the Pegulas are going for, and if they’re footing a heavy chunk of the price tag, and if it helps WNY rebound in a significant way....I could be persuaded it’s for the better.  But that’s a lot of if’s. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Augie

[BearNorth]

Grand Island has lotsa open land, the bridge tolls on game days could be dedicated to stadium bonds, easy access to Canadian Fans, and not nearly the snow belt that the OP is. 

 

[Punching Bag]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Need a dome to even have a chance at a Super Bowl, which would be fantastic for the city. Retractable would be my choice so they could choose to have a weather game if they want.

 

More important than the dome though, get a natural grass field and put heated coils underneath.

 

There is NO chance of a Superbowl in Buffalo; is a PSL salesman illusion.

 

In order for a dome to support the grass in Arizona Cardinals stadium they needed to have fields which could swing out.  This is Arizona which gets a lot of sun.  What natural grass stadium in northern client are you advocating as an example?  They did a study when I was at UB in late 70's / early 80's and they said there was not enough sunlight for such a plan to work but maybe grass strains have gotten better.

[RiotAct]

4 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Grand Island has lotsa open land, the bridge tolls on game days could be dedicated to stadium bonds, easy access to Canadian Fans, and not nearly the snow belt that the OP is. 

 

oh Gawd... the GI tolls are congested enough on average weekends... I can’t imagine the shitshow the southbound south bridge would be come 4:45 on gamedays.

[BuffaloHokie13]

26 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

There is NO chance of a Superbowl in Buffalo; is a PSL salesman illusion.

 

In order for a dome to support the grass in Arizona Cardinals stadium they needed to have fields which could swing out.  This is Arizona which gets a lot of sun.  What natural grass stadium in northern client are you advocating as an example?  They did a study when I was at UB in late 70's / early 80's and they said there was not enough sunlight for such a plan to work but maybe grass strains have gotten better.

When I said 'more important' what I meant was I'd rather have grass than a dome

[The Frankish Reich]

On 12/11/2017 at 5:11 PM, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Got any math on what kinda dent a handful of events every year puts in a billion dollar price tag?

 

I’m no economist, but the professional ones all agree, it’s not much and almost all cities will never see a ROI on any pro stadium, no matter what.

 

https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/

 

“NFL stadiums do not generate significant local economic growth, and the incremental tax revenue is not sufficient to cover any significant financial contribution by the city,” said Noll, a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. He has written articles and books and given talks on the public financing of sports stadiums.

 

Go ahead and Google for yourself. There’s plenty more stark evidence out there.

 

All absolutely correct.  8 regular season games, 2 not so well attended preseason games, and a home playoff game roughly every 34 years this pace.  There's just no way these $800 million stadiums are economically viable, particularly for a city like Buffalo.  Having said that, I fully expect the politicians and their developer friends to approve some kind of monstrosity to be built at largely taxpayer expense. Cuomo Domo.