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Buffalo30

Trading down in the draft?

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For those you forgot or were not around this is what a franchise changing QB looks like. Not Cousins, Keenum, Bradford or some other hand me down QB. Without one of these the Bills will be a joke.

6401004p-super-bowl-xxv.jpg

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39 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

For those you forgot or were not around this is what a franchise changing QB looks like. Not Cousins, Keenum, Bradford or some other hand me down QB. Without one of these the Bills will be a joke.

6401004p-super-bowl-xxv.jpg

 

 

You up-vote w***e!  :lol:

 

Throw in a picture of Kelly and you'll always get an up-tick from me.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

For those you forgot or were not around this is what a franchise changing QB looks like. Not Cousins, Keenum, Bradford or some other hand me down QB. Without one of these the Bills will be a joke.

6401004p-super-bowl-xxv.jpg

Well, the options have to be there too.  That was the entire point of the post.  If the top QBs go ahead of us even if we try to trade up...what do we do?  I said try to trade down and restock your picks for next year to give yourself the same position we had this year.  We could fill in the holes and go into next year with only QB on our mind.  Who knows if Allen or Darnold even come out.  Do we really just want to take a QB just to take one in the draft instead of grabbing the guy you love?  I think Tyrod is gone and they will be looking for another veteran to take his place until we draft our guy at QB.  If we don't get our guy, I could see this regime passing and not settling for a 5th QB in the class.  If they get the lucky chance to trade up for Darnold or Rosen, hallelujah.  If not...this may be the best option

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1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

Well, the options have to be there too.  That was the entire point of the post.  If the top QBs go ahead of us even if we try to trade up...what do we do?  I said try to trade down and restock your picks for next year to give yourself the same position we had this year.  We could fill in the holes and go into next year with only QB on our mind.  Who knows if Allen or Darnold even come out.  Do we really just want to take a QB just to take one in the draft instead of grabbing the guy you love?  I think Tyrod is gone and they will be looking for another veteran to take his place until we draft our guy at QB.  If we don't get our guy, I could see this regime passing and not settling for a 5th QB in the class.  If they get the lucky chance to trade up for Darnold or Rosen, hallelujah.  If not...this may be the best option

Failure is NOT an option and there will be a trade partner. Bringing in another teams trash to lead the Bills to another 7-9 season is not the "best option". It is the Doug Whaley option. I would resign EJ Manuel, run on every play and play prevent defense the whole game. THus go 0-16 then draft a QB.

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10 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Failure is NOT an option and there will be a trade partner. Bringing in another teams trash to lead the Bills to another 7-9 season is not the "best option". It is the Doug Whaley option. I would resign EJ Manuel, run on every play and play prevent defense the whole game. THus go 0-16 then draft a QB.

 

Agree with you, with the caveat that a 7-9 record next year will not be a failure if we draft the kid we NEED at QB and he throws for 25 tds and almost 4,000 yards, but didn't have the tools because we traded up to get him.

 

I am fine with that season and getting him the tools going forward.

 

...I am also fine with paying what would likely be our best quarterback in 20 years, and hopefully a potential or near star in the league right off the bat, only 5 million per for 4 seasons, giving us the ability to play around with money and get him help.

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Just stay where you are and make your picks. Forget moving up and down like a yoyo. They could have had Watson last year without moving around. There are always guys available no matter when you pick. You just have to select the right ones.

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18 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or...just maybe...they could spend less time on the phones trying to convince other teams to trade up and down, and instead spend more time on actually scouting the true potential of the players that they'll eventually select!  No, wait a minute.  These are the Buffalo Bills and we all that they're WAY smarter than the other 31 Teams.

 

Yea, it's impossible to do both. Especially when they put the scouts on the phone to do the trading.

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I think Mayfield could be this years Deshaun Watson. They will rip him apart but the dudes a winner. They will find out that he is more talented than thought in the combine and continue to harp on his flaws. Height, arm strength, accuracy and his attitude.

Deshaun Watson was a lion from the start and the book is still yet to be written on him could always become an RG3 clone.

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4 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

If you can't select one of the top QBs, do you just select one out of desperation?  That doesn't sound too great.  I 100% agree we need to draft a QB.  But let's take one we love, not one we are ehh about.  

Because those guys aren't long term starters...they are guys that can bridge the gap as an okay starter for maybe a year.  

 

The entire part of the post that people seem to be missing is we may not have a chance at the top QBs in this draft.  This is an option if that happens. 

If Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen are gone, who here would be willing to trade multiple first round picks and probably other picks for Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?  Is that something you really want to do?  If I'm giving up a ton of picks, I want one of the top tier guys and that's Darnold or Rosen at this point

We don't need a stop gap. 

We need a guy who can come in on day 1 and run the team. 

If Bridgewater or Bradford are the guys, then so is Tyrod. 

 

I would like to see a QB picked with our first rounder - not sure who yet. And see if he can beat out Tyrod. 

 

Im not interested in a stop gap.

Draft a rookie...and if confident in him, let him start. 

Even Deshawn Watsom didn't start opening day for the Texans. Imagine if Savage just middled it and didn't suck so bad that they HAD to put Watson in?  We'd never know who Watson was....

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The Bills will go after a qb this year and will spend the necessary fortune to get him if need be. They can't not do this.

3 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Well, the options have to be there too.  That was the entire point of the post.  If the top QBs go ahead of us even if we try to trade up...what do we do?  I said try to trade down and restock your picks for next year to give yourself the same position we had this year.  We could fill in the holes and go into next year with only QB on our mind.  Who knows if Allen or Darnold even come out.  Do we really just want to take a QB just to take one in the draft instead of grabbing the guy you love?  I think Tyrod is gone and they will be looking for another veteran to take his place until we draft our guy at QB.  If we don't get our guy, I could see this regime passing and not settling for a 5th QB in the class.  If they get the lucky chance to trade up for Darnold or Rosen, hallelujah.  If not...this may be the best option

This is a GREAT qb draft. No one is perfect, of course, but it's the best QB draft in a while. 

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4 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

Failure is NOT an option and there will be a trade partner. Bringing in another teams trash to lead the Bills to another 7-9 season is not the "best option". It is the Doug Whaley option. I would resign EJ Manuel, run on every play and play prevent defense the whole game. THus go 0-16 then draft a QB.

You say there will...I'm just pointing out that there may not be.  If a few of the qbs stay in school or the QB needy teams scoop them all up at the top...I'm not drafting the leftovers.  

 

Again, this was strictly scenario.  I said it in the original post that I want the QB but it has to be available too. Sometimes it's not, then what do you do...

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Without a franchise QB it makes little difference where or who we draft, IMO. If lightning strikes and Luck ends up with us, fine.

 

One other thing -- At what point does the talent drop off or is the talent across the top rounds relatively steady? For example, if you believe there are 8 players in this draft that stand fairly well over the rest, you probably don't want to trade out of the top 8.

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6 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Well, the options have to be there too.  That was the entire point of the post.  If the top QBs go ahead of us even if we try to trade up...what do we do?  I said try to trade down and restock your picks for next year to give yourself the same position we had this year.  We could fill in the holes and go into next year with only QB on our mind.  Who knows if Allen or Darnold even come out.  Do we really just want to take a QB just to take one in the draft instead of grabbing the guy you love?  I think Tyrod is gone and they will be looking for another veteran to take his place until we draft our guy at QB.  If we don't get our guy, I could see this regime passing and not settling for a 5th QB in the class.  If they get the lucky chance to trade up for Darnold or Rosen, hallelujah.  If not...this may be the best option

I have to believe they are coming out. If they do, there are 5-6 guys who can go in the 1st round. I'd be happy using one pick on any of them. I don't know enough about any of them to justify giving away the farm to move into the top 3 in the draft.  Hopefully the scouts have a clue.

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14 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No, cutting him now is what happens when you manage the 2017 roster instead of the 2018 roster, which is a -$1M savings.

 

 

Oh, man, that's what I get for posting when I have no time and should be working. I totally ignored the Dead Cap numbers. What a dolt!! Missed the un-prorated signing bonus for the years of 2019 - 2021. 

 

Interesting case because you think of it as a two year contract but of course, it's actually good though 2021 unless they void it after the 2017 or 2018 season. 

 

More than $9 mill savings is still a lot, but not nearly as much as I said.

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14 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

If you can't select one of the top QBs, do you just select one out of desperation?  That doesn't sound too great.  I 100% agree we need to draft a QB.  But let's take one we love, not one we are ehh about.  

Because those guys aren't long term starters...they are guys that can bridge the gap as an okay starter for maybe a year.  

 

The entire part of the post that people seem to be missing is we may not have a chance at the top QBs in this draft.  This is an option if that happens. 

If Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen are gone, who here would be willing to trade multiple first round picks and probably other picks for Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?  Is that something you really want to do?  If I'm giving up a ton of picks, I want one of the top tier guys and that's Darnold or Rosen at this point

 

 

If they like Allen or Mayfield a lot and think he might be gone by their pick ... sure, go ahead and trade up a bit. Not to #3 or anything crazy, but yeah, go up a few spots. You probably wouldn't have to give up a ton in that case.

 

I was really disappointed to see Garoppolo go to SF. I was hoping we'd have a shot at him or Cousins. Now, maybe Cousins but it's not a sure thing he'll even be available.

 

Oh, and Bridgewater is being really undervalued here. He looked to be rounding into shape in 2015 before the injury. He was playing pretty well and it was only his second year. Wouldn't mind them taking a shot at him if he's available. Not sure he will be.

Edited by Thurman#1

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You build a great o line and a lot of qbs and rbs look good. Add in a good defense and you win a lot of games. A qb can only take a team so far by himself. A few good veterans will be available. I wouldn't spend too much draft capital moving up. 

Edited by Turk71

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17 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I'd like to keep Tyrod as insurance, also, but your post makes sense and why he will probably not be here next season.  I'd look for someone like Bradford or Bridgewater to come in and next year.

 

Im not opposed to Tyrod the player being here. 

 

I also think hes cheaper than Bradford plus the dead money from moving on from him

 

My concerns would obviously be scheme, and if the relationship is totally trash at this point (hate to see a rookie walk into a toxic room)

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4 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Im not opposed to Tyrod the player being here. 

 

I also think hes cheaper than Bradford plus the dead money from moving on from him

 

My concerns would obviously be scheme, and if the relationship is totally trash at this point (hate to see a rookie walk into a toxic room)

With regards to scheme, if Dennison is gone, that might not be an issue.  But good point, McDermott will still be around and who knows the relationship Tyrod has with him.

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I see Buffalo Trading our top15 pick + a 2nd rounder to move up and grab a QB.  Then I think they will again try to trade our KC pick 17/18 and drop down in the later 1st and get that 2nd round pick back.

 

Long story short, I feel they will use one 1st rd pick to move up and one 1st rd pick to move back and get more picks all while still having 2 first rd picks and maybe gaining more picks for the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  So we have 5 picks in top 3 rounds, I'd bet we end up getting 6 after the draft is over even after trading up. 

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On 12/6/2017 at 11:23 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747404-2018-nfl-mock-draft-post-week-13-breakdown

http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/11/29/2018-nfl-mock-draft-updated-4-round-projections-after-week-12/3/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-cowboys-falcons-add-wr-speed-with-ridley-burnett/

 

Three mocks with Mayfield in the first round, all among the first few mocks on a google search for "2018 mock draft". 

 

Mayfield's in plenty of first round mocks.

 

And I know what's coming next from some people on here:  "That guy's an idiot and that guy's never right and the third guy has him in the mid-twenties and he could easily fall." All justifications,  no good arguments. He might easily make the first. Might not but it could easily happen.

 

 

McShay thinks Mayfield will go in the first. Kiper is not sure, says he's on the fringe.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/21665021/2018-nfl-draft-primer-mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-answer-25-questions-prospects-rankings-mock-draft

i clicked on all of those links and wow they make no sense at all.  i want mayfield and then vito or wilkins and i don't see why we can't get both. i also don't see how they have both our 1st round picks so far down. i would assume....with tyrod finishing out that our picks should be about 13 and 15.....imo

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i also think that there will be a lot of movement with vet qbs at the start free agency and i think that the whole landscape of how the qb needy teams may change.

i hope mayfield falls to us and if for some rason we have to spend to go up 5 or so spots, i hope we use next year's first and keep the picks we have this year.

Edited by billsredneck1

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High draft picks in the NFL are not worth trading up for. It's been proven again and again. This isn't the NBA, where a top 5 pick cam immediately be a superstar. Accumulating picks, trading down, rolling tnhe dice on MORE THAN ONE pick is how great NFL teams are built.

 

Watch the Browns in a couple of years. They are building something there...they have a good, young nucleus on defense...assuming their new GM isn't an idiot, of course. Which is a big assumption.

 

I'm all for trading down. Get more picks.

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3 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

High draft picks in the NFL are not worth trading up for. It's been proven again and again. This isn't the NBA, where a top 5 pick cam immediately be a superstar. Accumulating picks, trading down, rolling tnhe dice on MORE THAN ONE pick is how great NFL teams are built.

 

Watch the Browns in a couple of years. They are building something there...they have a good, young nucleus on defense...assuming their new GM isn't an idiot, of course. Which is a big assumption.

 

I'm all for trading down. Get more picks.

And your starting QB is going to come from where exactly?

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3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And your starting QB is going to come from where exactly?

 

The Browns are going to have the No. 1 pick. 2, at worst. They have plenty of picks to pick whichever QB they like...they don't have to trade up for one. They can even trade down, gather more picks, and still pick one of the QBs they like this year. And if he's not the one, they'll have more picks the next year to do it again.

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23 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills will go after a qb this year and will spend the necessary fortune to get him if need be. They can't not do this.

This is a GREAT qb draft. No one is perfect, of course, but it's the best QB draft in a while. 

 

 

...remember the Cowgirls picking TWO in the 1st of 1989 draft?.....Aikman at #1 and Walsh at I think #33 (supplemental pick)......they were referred to as " 1 and 1a"......

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