thebandit27 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Just now, joesixpack said: The crux of your overly verbose post was: Which led to my response. With a QB who doesn't like to pass, having a WR is wasted. Like $10,000 rims on an 85 taurus. Ah, I didn't pick up on what you were saying--my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: The crux of your overly verbose post was: Which led to my response. With a QB who doesn't like to pass, having a WR is wasted. Like $10,000 rims on an 85 taurus. Explain why it is happening with Goff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Explain why it is happening with Goff? Honestly, I don't think he's as good as people think he is. I think he's probably got a combination of attitude, work ethic and skill issues that keep QBs from trusting him. Would you legitimately pick him up over AJ Green, Julio Jones et al? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Honestly, I don't think he's as good as people think he is. I think he's probably got a combination of attitude, work ethic and skill issues that keep QBs from trusting him. Would you legitimately pick him up over AJ Green, Julio Jones et al? No, but if I threw him the ball as often as they get thrown it would I expect the same production? Yes. It has been like that for a few years. His per target production is right there with the best in the league. He just doesn’t see the ball as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I was shocked to read last night that Shaq's FOUR sacks this season lead the team. That is depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 22 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....we're in a completely different world as far as drafting players and the salaries of draftees with the Rook Cap.....the last two beneficiaries of no rook cap drafts were Bradford at $50 mil guaranteed and Stafford at $41 mil guaranteed if memory serves me...so with the rookie limitations on one hand and the cap continuing escalating on the other hand, why doesn't it all fit?....Overdorf has been the capologist since I believe 2008 with final say on contracts (not Whaley)....if he is the culprit, why did Pegula retain him?........ I have no idea who is the culprit in the Bills FO but unless the Bills figure out how to "afford" to retain the decent players they draft, they aren't EVER going to make the playoffs. It's not like they're drafting busts; ex-Bills are scattered all over the league, many of them starters, some of them Pro Bowlers, most of them key pieces of playoff teams, including Super Bowl winners ... but they either weren't "good enough" for the Bills or they were "too good" for the Bills to afford to re-sign. How can that be when the Bills are not paying for a franchise QB or a marquee DE or a super WR? Aside from Dareus, Glenn, and Clay -- and maybe McCoy -- I don't believe any other of the Bills vets are making top money for their positions. Taylor certainly isn't. The Bills couldn't afford to keep Hogan in 2016 or either Woods or Goodwin in 2017. They sold the Watkins trade to many of the gullible on the assumption of "they wouldn't be able to afford to sign him" in 2018. They couldn't afford to keep Gilmore or Gillislee or Zach Brown either. How are they going to sign any veteran players above the veteran minimum if they have a QB who will be demanding $20+ million a year (likely $30+ by 2023)? Hell, even high first round QBs like Winston and Mariota currently make nearly $7 million a year on rookie contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 1 minute ago, SoTier said: I have no idea who is the culprit in the Bills FO but unless the Bills figure out how to "afford" to retain the decent players they draft, they aren't EVER going to make the playoffs. It's not like they're drafting busts; ex-Bills are scattered all over the league, many of them starters, some of them Pro Bowlers, most of them key pieces of playoff teams, including Super Bowl winners ... but they either weren't "good enough" for the Bills or they were "too good" for the Bills to afford to re-sign. How can that be when the Bills are not paying for a franchise QB or a marquee DE or a super WR? Aside from Dareus, Glenn, and Clay -- and maybe McCoy -- I don't believe any other of the Bills vets are making top money for their positions. Taylor certainly isn't. The Bills couldn't afford to keep Hogan in 2016 or either Woods or Goodwin in 2017. They sold the Watkins trade to many of the gullible on the assumption of "they wouldn't be able to afford to sign him" in 2018. They couldn't afford to keep Gilmore or Gillislee or Zach Brown either. How are they going to sign any veteran players above the veteran minimum if they have a QB who will be demanding $20+ million a year (likely $30+ by 2023)? Hell, even high first round QBs like Winston and Mariota currently make nearly $7 million a year on rookie contracts. ...here's an interesting point to chew on as far as cap management......much "acclaim(BIG COUGH)" has been pointed towards Whaley as the failure.....and I am in NO MEANS defending Whaley....but read the 2008 press release below regarding Overdorf's promotion.....if cap management was and continues to be such an impediment for this club, why did Pegula keep him?.....TP could easily afford the "best in the land" if this is a major organizational stumbling block......what did I miss?.......Pegula obviously saw the light as far as Brandon and kicked him upstairs as a SOLE Business Administration guy WELL away from personnel, etc which he was grossly unqualified for...yet Overdorf remains..... Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring Associated Press Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m. ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions. The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the seaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 22 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Jordan Matthews has 250 receptions, 2,995 yards, and 20 TD's in 4 seasons. He was a 2nd round draft pick. On a team that had a pass-first offense under supposed coaching genius Chip Kelly for 2 of those 4 years ... hell, that offense even made Nick Foles look like a top QB for a while, and Pederson runs a pass-first offense too. On the Bills, Foles has only been able to play in 10 games with 25 catches for 284 yards and 1 TD. If the Bills can let Hogan, Goodwin, and Woods walk and trade away Watson, why on earth would they want Matthews even if he is "cheap"? Shell out $50 for a winter coat at Walmart rather than $200 for one at LL Bean and see which one keeps you warmer at 10 below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, SoTier said: On a team that had a pass-first offense under supposed coaching genius Chip Kelly for 2 of those 4 years ... hell, that offense even made Nick Foles look like a top QB for a while, and Pederson runs a pass-first offense too. On the Bills, Foles has only been able to play in 10 games with 25 catches for 284 yards and 1 TD. If the Bills can let Hogan, Goodwin, and Woods walk and trade away Watson, why on earth would they want Matthews even if he is "cheap"? Shell out $50 for a winter coat at Walmart rather than $200 for one at LL Bean and see which one keeps you warmer at 10 below. Pederson's offense has almost the same run/pass ratio as Dennison's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Kelvin Benjamin said in his lockerroom interview that Matthews needs surgery on his knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 On 12/6/2017 at 10:44 AM, GunnerBill said: I was shocked to read last night that Shaq's FOUR sacks this season lead the team. That is depressing. And a couple of those were flat out vulture sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: And a couple of those were flat out vulture sacks. Lawson may well be the worst pick of Doug Whaley's disastrous career as GM of the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 hours ago, joesixpack said: Lawson may well be the worst pick of Doug Whaley's disastrous career as GM of the Bills. I believe Whaley drafted what Rex wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 minute ago, nucci said: I believe Whaley drafted what Rex wanted Defintely believe both Lawson and Ragland were Rex’s guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) On 12/6/2017 at 6:04 PM, SoTier said: I have no idea who is the culprit in the Bills FO but unless the Bills figure out how to "afford" to retain the decent players they draft, they aren't EVER going to make the playoffs. It's not like they're drafting busts; ex-Bills are scattered all over the league, many of them starters, some of them Pro Bowlers, most of them key pieces of playoff teams, including Super Bowl winners ... but they either weren't "good enough" for the Bills or they were "too good" for the Bills to afford to re-sign. How can that be when the Bills are not paying for a franchise QB or a marquee DE or a super WR? Aside from Dareus, Glenn, and Clay -- and maybe McCoy -- I don't believe any other of the Bills vets are making top money for their positions. Taylor certainly isn't. The Bills couldn't afford to keep Hogan in 2016 or either Woods or Goodwin in 2017. They sold the Watkins trade to many of the gullible on the assumption of "they wouldn't be able to afford to sign him" in 2018. They couldn't afford to keep Gilmore or Gillislee or Zach Brown either. How are they going to sign any veteran players above the veteran minimum if they have a QB who will be demanding $20+ million a year (likely $30+ by 2023)? Hell, even high first round QBs like Winston and Mariota currently make nearly $7 million a year on rookie contracts. Terrible contracts. Clay, Dareus, Glenn are the main culprits. I can go through each though. Hogan - Glenn was tagged at the time he signed his offer sheet so we had very limited space. In 2016, we had dead money from Mario and Harvin. We also had Aaron Williams who was getting paid fairly well in addition to the 4 you mention. Woods/Goodwin - Both were UFA's and were entitled to search elsewhere, I don't personally think goodwin was a big loss. At the time they signed elsewhere we were more worried about watkins foot, and clay's knee. Looked to me like they were planning to draft and get younger at the position. Gilmore - Man corner in a largely zone scheme. He also got paid the 2nd highest guarantee and the 6th highest payday of any corner in the NFL. I don't think he's that good so... Looking at the bad contracts on the books, it doesn't seem smart to sign another. Gillislee - RB2 Signed from scrap heap, got 5th round pick in return. Isn't that how you're supposed to operate? We had the highest paid starting RB in the NFL. Signing Gillislee's offer sheet would have made him highest paid backup RB in the NFL. If we put a 2nd round tender on him we'd have paid him about 3 million to be a backup, and we had already matched Groy's offer sheet. Z. Brown - Sat in free agency forever and never signed anywhere. Signed late in free agency, so it isn't as if we weren't given a chance. Not sure we saw him as a fit as a WLB in the 4-3, so I don't know if this one was even an issue. Dareus is now off the books starting in 2019, and i think they'll honestly try and move Glenn before the 2018 season. Clay is 9 million either way in 2018 so he's likely to stay unless we get an above market offer. Edited December 15, 2017 by dneveu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, nucci said: I believe Whaley drafted what Rex wanted which lays a bit of blame on Whaley for lack of his own vision ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 8 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: which lays a bit of blame on Whaley for lack of his own vision ? Yes it does but just like the "rift" thread....a GM gets and keeps players the coach wants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 10 hours ago, billieve420 said: Defintely believe both Lawson and Ragland were Rex’s guys. They were drafted to play in a different scheme. Ragland is doing very well now that he’s in KC playing something similar to what he was drafted for. Lawson will probably be doing the same soon. It’s all part of the fun of changing coaches and schemes every two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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