Everyone's so caught up on QB, what happened to the defense?

[26CornerBlitz]

Not everyone.  It's been the biggest issue on the team during the three game swoon with warning signs on the horizon prior to that. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Lack of talent finally catching up to them. Lack of a big body requiring a double team every play isnt helping either.  Now teams are free to pick and choose who they want to double team based in play design or use the extra blocker to take out an LB that was runming free before...

 

 

I am noticing that the things you say hold up to scrutiny.

 

Dilly dilly!

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Comebackkid said:

According to Chris Brown this week.  Part of it is talent, especially at LB.   some of it is losing confidence after the Jets game. Young guys getting discouraged when they make a bad play.  Not trusting each other so they are getting out of their gaps.  Seems like the Bills have had real issues with mental toughness on the D since rex.

 

Lack of talent isn't a lack of mental toughness; it's not being fast enough, strong enough, smart enough etc.  Neither is pressing/over-compensating to make up for lack of success nor attempting to cover for teammates who aren't good enough for the roles they've been assigned.   It's on the coaches to put players into the best situations to succeed, and that usually requires a change in scheme and a major infusion of talent.  Neither seems likely to happen.

 

46 minutes ago, Buddo said:

Dareus's impact, isn't to be measured in snap counts. If he's in on opposition run plays that aren't successful, he's affecting their game plan.

 

Perhaps one of the more telling things that this team has done since he was traded, is to re-sign a bigger bodied DT, and let another one go, in an effort to do something about shoring up the middle.  Actions are speaking louder than statistics, or should I say snap counts.

 

Even when the D was really firing with Schwartz a few years back, Dareus missed a game or two towards the end of the season, and we got run all over again, all of a sudden. He returned, iirc, and all of a sudden the run D is back performing.

 

There's a reason why teams pay big money to DTs with Dareus's skill set, and that's because they make life a lot easier for the players around them. 

 

      

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why the heck is Humber in there over Milano?

Milano makes mistakes too..

[SoTier]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Not everyone.  It's been the biggest issue on the team during the three game swoon with warning signs on the horizon prior to that. 

 

IMO, a desire on the part of either the coaching staff or FO to distract fans from the defensive meltdowns against the Jests and Saints may very well have factored into the decision to start Peterman last week.   If fans had only the defensive meltdown to consider, many more of them might start correlating that the Bills D went south along with Marcel Dareus while Jacksonville's rush D improved.

 

Starting Peterman when they did just doesn't smell right.  That's why the national media jumped all over it, and guys like Carucci came up with lame, far-fetched explainations for it.  The fact is, if the Bills were 3-6 and they started Peterman, nobody would bat an eye but they were 5-4 and sitting in a playoff position.  That's what smells like dead fish that's been sitting at the end of the dock in the sun for three days, especially when Peterman played so poorly.

 

 

11 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Milano makes mistakes too..

 

He's a rookie who probably makes a lot more mistakes than Humber simply because rookies tend to do that. 

[26CornerBlitz]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

IMO, a desire on the part of either the coaching staff or FO to distract fans from the defensive meltdowns against the Jests and Saints may very well have factored into the decision to start Peterman last week.   If fans had only the defensive meltdown to consider, many more of them might start correlating that the Bills D went south along with Marcel Dareus while Jacksonville's rush D improved.

 

Starting Peterman when they did just doesn't smell right.  That's why the national media jumped all over it, and guys like Carucci came up with lame, far-fetched explainations for it.  The fact is, if the Bills were 3-6 and they started Peterman, nobody would bat an eye but they were 5-4 and sitting in a playoff position.  That's what smells like dead fish that's been sitting at the end of the dock in the sun for three days, especially when Peterman played so poorly.

 

 

 

He's a rookie who probably makes a lot more mistakes than Humber simply because rookies tend to do that. 

 

I'd like to think there's no truth to this because it would be a seriously weak case of scapegoating on their part that really didn't work as many fans and members of the media have called attention to the issues the defense has been having. 

[Nuncha]

They are on the field...A LOT. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it certainly did. But that's been waaay overplayed. Dareus snap count percentages for his 6 Bills games this year:

59

25

0

29

33

57 (when he was obviously being showcased ahead of the trade)

And remember Week 16 last year, when the Dolphins ran for 261 yards against us? Dareus was on the field 90 percent of the snaps.  He was also on the field FOR EVERY DEFENSIVE SNAP when Leveon Bell ran all over us in week 14 last year. There's other serious/systemic problems here, not the least of which is the terrible linebacking corps. McD may be covering his own butt a little when he provides his lukewarm support for his D line and talks about the next level's failure to fill the gaps, but there is definitely something there.

 

I don't want to overstate the Dareus thing - but if you look at the run yards they do roughly correlate with how much Dareus was playing.  I posted the numbers elsewhere.

The outlier is the Oakland game, but someone else pointed out to me that Oak hasn't much run game, and what they do have is named Lynch who was out that week.
Also Jags game

 

That said, there's a lot more to it.  There is some gap assignment/discipline stuff.  What bugs me is that the tackling and hustle seem half-assed.  Way too many missed tackles or yards after contact

9 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

They are on the field...A LOT. 

 

 

They could make some tackles and earn their asses a rest for themselves

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, McNubbins said:

At the beginning of the season we played strong against the run, lately that's gone by the wayside.  Is that simply because Dareus isn't playing?  Tre White was playing at DROTY caliber at the beginning.  Did teams just figure out how to play him?  Obviously we aren't getting turnovers, and tackling has looked weaker than it did at the beginning.  So what, in your estimation, happened to the defense?

I don't dismiss the idea that the offense not being able to stay on the field has worn out the defense.  Is that the problem?  Does it all come back to the offense again?

 

Marcy got traded.

 

Fix DT and fix the defense

[KW95 - JA17]

This is exact replay of when Gailey was coach.  Team was leading the league in turnovers and were 5-2. Turnovers dried up and the real defence was exposed.

 

 

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'd like to think there's no truth to this because it would be a seriously weak case of scapegoating on their part that really didn't work as many fans and members of the media have called attention to the issues the defense has been having. 

 

The Bills have made so many of what appear to be bizarre or contradictory decisions since they fired Ryan (no problem with that) that they seem to be taking their cues from the Keystone Cops of silent film fame.   Much of what they've done seems to be irrational in a football sense.

[Comebackkid]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why the heck is Humber in there over Milano?

It seems to me the coaching staff has a unique value system for players.  What they seem to see as apposed to most fans and even media is head scratching to say the least.   Will be interesting to see if his playing time picks up through the end of the year. 

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Lack of talent isn't a lack of mental toughness; it's not being fast enough, strong enough, smart enough etc.  Neither is pressing/over-compensating to make up for lack of success nor attempting to cover for teammates who aren't good enough for the roles they've been assigned.   It's on the coaches to put players into the best situations to succeed, and that usually requires a change in scheme and a major infusion of talent.  Neither seems likely to happen.

 

 

      

They are referring to the younger players on defense.    Supposedly early in the year they just believed they would over come whatever happened.  Then I think after the Jets destruction they lost some faith.

An excerpt:

The level of adversity might be new for a lot of the young players Buffalo’s defense depends on. For young players who were accustomed to doing a lot of winning in college, a three-game losing streak might be unfamiliar territory for them.

That’s why the vets are working hard to re-establish that mentally tough mindset with their younger teammates, especially in instances where there might be a big play made against them

 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

I think its a combination of a lot of things.

 

The Bills were giving up lots of yards with the exception of the Jets and Panthers game, but the difference is the Bills were getting tons of turnovers that lead them to 5-2. They aren't getting those turnovers anymore.

 

Losing Dareus for sure hurt the run defence.

 

Scheme I believe has been figured out. Teams just aren't beating themselves and are attacking the linebackers in the passing game.

 

Linebackers have taken a huge step back the last few weeks.

 

And pass rush. The Bills were getting after the QB with 4 or 5 guys consistently but now they can't even come close.

 

Add all those thing together and you get a recipe for disaster

 

Dareus wasn't dominant but he did absorb double teams which made our awful LB'S look much better than they really are. Every single NT on this roster today are basically backups for any other team. Kyle will retire in 2 months and McD will probably have to replace 5 out of our front 7.

[BillsFan130]

18 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Dareus wasn't dominant but he did absorb double teams which made our awful LB'S look much better than they really are. Every single NT on this roster today are basically backups for any other team. Kyle will retire in 2 months and McD will probably have to replace 5 out of our front 7.

Ya I agree. Sounds about right

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't want to overstate the Dareus thing - but if you look at the run yards they do roughly correlate with how much Dareus was playing.  I posted the numbers elsewhere.

The outlier is the Oakland game, but someone else pointed out to me that Oak hasn't much run game, and what they do have is named Lynch who was out that week.
Also Jags game

 

That said, there's a lot more to it.  There is some gap assignment/discipline stuff.  What bugs me is that the tackling and hustle seem half-assed.  Way too many missed tackles or yards after contact

 

They could make some tackles and earn their asses a rest for themselves

That's a reasonable take.  And I was always kind of on the fence about the Dareus trade. I liked it, since I believed they needed to accelerate clearing that contract the best they could. But I could never go along with those fans who said it would have zero impact on the defense. It clearly has hurt, but I don't think it's even the leading cause of the defensive collapse; if he were that essential to the defense, we would have seen defensive collapses in the games he missed/barely played in.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, McNubbins said:

At the beginning of the season we played strong against the run, lately that's gone by the wayside.  Is that simply because Dareus isn't playing?  Tre White was playing at DROTY caliber at the beginning.  Did teams just figure out how to play him?  Obviously we aren't getting turnovers, and tackling has looked weaker than it did at the beginning.  So what, in your estimation, happened to the defense?

I don't dismiss the idea that the offense not being able to stay on the field has worn out the defense.  Is that the problem?  Does it all come back to the offense again?

 

 

It's a question worth asking.

 

And while being worn out may be a part of it, it's not a majority or even close. And it's not Dareus' loss. The guy was playing less than 25% of snaps early and the defense didn't look worse when he was sitting. It may have had some effect but it's not the major part of things. Marcell wasn't playing all that well this year.

 

IMHO it has a lot to do with teams figuring us out. It's a common thing in the NFL for units to do well for 4 - 8 games and then start to struggle and usually it's because teams have figured out how to counter what they do. 

 

In this case, it seems to have a lot to do with the fact that the LBs aren't a talent match for what this defense wants them to do, and teams have figured this out and are attacking it. It also has a bit to do with a line that's fairly tough but only has one real pass rusher, making them much easier to defend. Beyond that, maybe Kyle Williams is finally starting to show his age a bit because even the DL hasn't been as good as we'd hoped.

 

And maybe they really are having problems with run fits as well. It's a new scheme. They're gonna have to bring in guys who are physical and mental fits for McDermott's defense over the next year or two.

 

It does NOT all come back to the offense. This defense is not good.either.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Can't say for sure but looks like teams are attacking the linebackers a lot more in gnf middle of the field. Just something I've noticed. Maybe I'm wrong

 

Easy to attack them when they have an extra blockwr not assigned to Dareus

[Theshallowcross]

3 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

They are on the field...A LOT. 

 

 

That is their own doing though. The Bills defense is 32nd in the league at creating 3 and outs. 32nd in the league at making the opposing offense punt. 26th in the league in yards per drive and 28th in the league in points allowed per drive. 

 

The defense has tape on them now and creating turnovers has stopped. They've been exposed for a lack of talent and its only going to get worse. 

 

tl;dr - The defense stinks 

[Sweats]

Here's the problem the way I see it........

 

If we go after a QB in next years draft (which seems to me that we probably will), then seriously, how many draft picks will we have left to address our D?..........and our Oline?

 

Chances are, if we go after a QB, you can probably kiss our first 3-5 picks good-bye, which leaves us with very little to address the rest of the team.

We're going to be in rough shape for a couple of years.