SoCal Deek Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Oh brother! The Team is neither tanking or not tanking. Did they do better than anyone thought right out of the gate? Sure. But, now it's all catching up with them and the true quality level is starting to show. At the end of the day they'll win six or seven games just virtually everyone knew they would but the 'story' will have an odd twist to it based mostly on the odd schedule that had them playing the hardest part of their schedule near the end. Had the schedule been reversed we'd have already added two beat downs by the Patriots an people would be complaining that late season wins over Denver and Oakland and Yampa would only serve to ruin their draft order. Potato....potato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? It's a fair question. I think it goes deeper than "telling everyone upfront", though, Crisp. There's been a real mixed message in some of the personnel moves. For example, a number of the players brought in by trade have been 1 year (1.5 yr for Benjamin) rentals - what's the point, if you're not trying to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's a fair question. I think it goes deeper than "telling everyone upfront", though, Crisp. There's been a real mixed message in some of the personnel moves. For example, a number of the players brought in by trade have been 1 year (1.5 yr for Benjamin) rentals - what's the point, if you're not trying to win? The Bills are trying to win. They just weren't EXPECTING to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Oh brother! The Team is neither tanking or not tanking. Did they do better than anyone thought right out of the gate? Sure. But, now it's all catching up with them and the true quality level is starting to show. At the end of the day they'll win six or seven games just virtually everyone knew they would but the 'story' will have an odd twist to it based mostly on the odd schedule that had them playing the hardest part of their schedule near the end. Had the schedule been reversed we'd have already added two beat downs by the Patriots an people would be complaining that late season wins over Denver and Oakland and Yampa would only serve to ruin their draft order. Potato....potato Good post man, I would give you a thumbs up but I'm out of them for today. At the start of the season I thought 4 or 5 wins, I guess I should be happy they might get 6 or maybe even 7 but I think I would have rather them just go all in on the tank and get the 4 or less wins I was really wanting so this team can truly rebuild. 6 or 7 wins wont even get a wild card so why bother. 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The Bills are trying to win. They just weren't EXPECTING to. Haha, I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Just now, xRUSHx said: Good post man, I would give you a thumbs up but I'm out of them for today. At the start of the season I thought 4 or 5 wins, I guess I should be happy they might get 6 or maybe even 7 but I think I would have rather them just go all in on the tank and get the 4 or less wins I was really wanting so this team can truly rebuild. 6 or 7 wins wont even get a wild card so why bother. Can the Bills help it if the Broncos stink, the Falcons had a super bowl hangover and the Raiders kept giving the ball away? Would you feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I would say it was failing to recognize that American attitudes toward health and naturally sourced products were shifting rapidly. Oh, wait... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I feel as though everyone in that building knew it was a rebuilding year. When they got off to the 5 and 2 start, they were tickled pink to the point of trading for Benjamin. Then when the film got on these guys, they realized how sucky their defense was and as a result now they're truly looking to see what they have in a quarterback. Outside of that I think we all knew it was a rebuilding year. The five and two start just clouded our judgment. In all honesty I think Shady's gone next year probably traded, I think Kyle is going to retire and I think probably 20 to 25 of our roster spots are going to turn over, outside of draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Disagree. Do not think they are trying to win very much this season at all. Just about every large decision they have taken so far (there have been quite a few of them!) hurts this team in this season. Think about it. I think it was just the opposite of a panic, knee-jerk decision to bench Tyrod. It think it was coldly calculated and they were quietly waiting for Tyrod to have 2 bad games in a row...so they could replace him. The benching of Tyrod was a plan that was drawn up before the season started most likely. My view: They got rid of the guys that they did not want on the team this year based on who they thought fit their DNA for this year. They went out and got Kelvin Benjamin to try to win this year. I think they want it both ways and have guys like you and others who will give them a pass for this year. Edited November 21, 2017 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: IMO his biggest mistake was bringing back Tyrod. Players/fans that only support Tyrod as the starter will cause the arguments and ripple effect of a disfuntial organisation and a split fan base. I don't know what's going on in the locker room. If the locker room is split, it's a problem, but I have no gouge. They should not care about fan arguments or a split base. Fans will stop arguing and come together fast enough if they win. I find the reasoning in the rest of your post a bit hard to follow. I do agree that given what we've seen, they should have traded Tyrod or let him go. Tyrod is a QB that needs a certain system. The Rex/Roman plan for success was to have a "good enough" QB shielded by a top-notch run game and a stout defense. The D didn't do their part, but the O worked well enough. Dennison had a previous track record of trying to force an aged and immobile Peyton Manning away from the shotgun/pistol formation he'd been successful in and stick him under center. It didn't work well. In Denver, some combination of FO and "Sheriff" was able to shut that down. If they wanted to win this year, keep Tyrod and keep the O that worked for him. If they wanted to install the O Dennison wants eventually, let Tyrod go and bring in someone who can run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 This season has been a lot more interesting than your typical "rebuilding" season. Honestly, they have accomplished winning now while building for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 It is going to be very interesting to see how many season tickets they sell for next year. There already was a drop off coming into this year, and I know from experience that the secondary market has been a buyers' market. It has been very soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The Bills are trying to win. They just weren't EXPECTING to. Now I say "potato, potato". If you aren't expecting to win, why trade for or bring in guys on short rentals? Get more picks or save money. Just now, TheFunPolice said: This season has been a lot more interesting than your typical "rebuilding" season. Honestly, they have accomplished winning now while building for later. Serious question: what building for later do you feel they have accomplished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Now I say "potato, potato". If you aren't expecting to win, why trade for or bring in guys on short rentals? Get more picks or save money. Serious question: what building for later do you feel they have accomplished? I think the draft picks are the building for later part. Now the tougher part: hit on them. 5 picks in the first 3 rounds is amazing... if you choose well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't know what's going on in the locker room. If the locker room is split, it's a problem, but I have no gouge. They should not care about fan arguments or a split base. Fans will stop arguing and come together fast enough if they win. I find the reasoning in the rest of your post a bit hard to follow. I do agree that given what we've seen, they should have traded Tyrod or let him go. Tyrod is a QB that needs a certain system. The Rex/Roman plan for success was to have a "good enough" QB shielded by a top-notch run game and a stout defense. The D didn't do their part, but the O worked well enough. Dennison had a previous track record of trying to force an aged and immobile Peyton Manning away from the shotgun/pistol formation he'd been successful in and stick him under center. It didn't work well. In Denver, some combination of FO and "Sheriff" was able to shut that down. If they wanted to win this year, keep Tyrod and keep the O that worked for him. If they wanted to install the O Dennison wants eventually, let Tyrod go and bring in someone who can run it. Good post man, thumbs up even though I do not agree that Tyrod offense is good enough even with a very good D for a long term success. IMO it worked for a short time but now that teams have his limited scheme figured out that Tyrod ship has sailed. IMO Tyrod coming back as a starter with this new staff is why the turmoil is happening so bad. They made there bed with him and now have no choice but to either ride it or end it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Not so sure...many fans, including myself, have wanted a rebuild for a while now The Bills are rebuilding regardless what is being said from the organization. You don't trade away some of your better players for picks and shed cap money if you are concerned about the immediate term. From a business standpoint and from a locker room standpoint (as someone else stated) it would be a mistake to make such an official claim. With respect to the Taylor and Peterman issue in the grand scheme of things who plays or not this year has little impact because neither is going to be our franchise qb. The notion that the team that McDermott inherited, and especially after shedding players, was going to be a playoff team is an absurdity. The owner is not a billionaire dope. He hired McDermott on the basis that he was going to dramatically/aggressively remake this team and organization. That's exactly what is being done now. Many people can't handle that painful reality. I am on board with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Dennison and Kubiak are a big reason why Manning looked as bad as he did his last season. They insisted he play their system, and the "compromise" was still a totally different offense for an aging and banged up #18. They wanted roll outs and under center for Manning even though it was patently obvious that it wasn't going to work. I think Rico learned his stubbornness from Kubiak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Peter said: My view: They got rid of the guys that they did not want on the team this year based on who they thought fit their DNA for this year. They went out and got Kelvin Benjamin to try to win this year. I think they want it both ways and have guys like you and others who will give them a pass for this year. Not just Kelvin Benjamin - he is signed for next year, after all - but Jordan Matthews (1 yr), EJ Gaines (1 yr) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: Dennison and Kubiak are a big reason why Manning looked as bad as he did his last season. They insisted he play their system, and the "compromise" was still a totally different offense for an aging and banged up #18. They wanted roll outs and under center for Manning even though it was patently obvious that it wasn't going to work. I think Rico learned his stubbornness from Kubiak. Ya I remember this as well. The argument was Manning old then. But this show result how stubborn they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not just Kelvin Benjamin - he is signed for next year, after all - but Jordan Matthews (1 yr), EJ Gaines (1 yr) etc. I agree. I just did not feel like going through the entire litany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think keeping vets and trying to win was the right approach.......a QB to develop and breaking the losing culture were jobs 1 and 1A IMO........but I agree that you need to be committed to what you are doing one way or another. They wanted a roster full of veterans filling virtually even all of the depth spots.........but didn't want to keep Watkins or Dareus? How exactly do you WIN without guys that can actually impact games? Now they are old and have only a tiny handful of very young players in development..........and almost nobody in or entering their prime..........this roster is all kindsa' wrong for a team that is rebuilding OR trying to win. The Bills don't hire Head Coaches, they hire Bonehead Coaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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