teef Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 37 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Pegula is saying "Cash me outside, how bout dat??" she's no woahhvicky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I've never seen Mead type more than 8 words in a post. Somebody must have slipped something into his coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, bbb said: What DID he do to Pat LaFontaine? I have never seen a report of what actually went down. ...he hired LaFontaine as part of the "name game infatuation" ala Wrecks........BUT Pat had deep ties to the Sabres organization versus Wrecks having none to Bills.....Pat hired Terry Murray as GM who traded Ryan Miller to Blues and Pat walked......both taught Pegula a stern "name game lesson" as a neophyte owner IMO....and he is doing his best to atone for his mistakes as expected and even bigger is his "mea culpas" with HOCKEY and FOOTBALL people to run the ops, WHICH will take time to pay off...... Edited November 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 6:24 AM, Coach Tuesday said: Let me start by saying that I really like the Pegulas as people - they seem like good citizens and possess integrity and beneficence. And yes, we as fans owe them gratitude for keeping both the Bills and Sabres afloat and in Buffalo. All of that said, they are horrible owners. They are well-intentioned and want to win, but clearly have no idea how to do it. They have empowered the wrong people at the wrong times. They have proven to be susceptible to good interviews at the expense of more sophisticated due diligence. They have employed bizarre organizational structures that have undermined the few quality hires they have made. They have supported borderline insane team building strategies that have resulted in a near-impossible run of sustained failure. There does not seem to be any end to this trend on the horizon and I’m really struggling to understand what the plan is for turning the Bills and Sabres into winning franchises. Certainly, pairing first-time GMs with first-time coaches has failed miserably for both teams and, in the case of the Bills, the decision to expel elite talent, rather than maximizing and supporting the talent on hand with quality coaching and added depth, has bombed in spectacular fashion. In a word, they have destroyed two sports franchises. I’m wondering if it’s time for Kim and Terry to look for sale partners for one or both teams. Perhaps they could sell a majority stake and become passive minority owners (although the leagues may have some restrictions on this) or perhaps they should just sell outright. I’d imagine at this point their investments have appreciated nicely. Perhaps it is time for them to reap some of those gains and turn the businesses over to individuals or entities that know what they’re doing. I know some of you will respond to let me know how ungrateful I am. That’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinions. My opinion is that the fans here deserve more than just “we kept the franchises in Buffalo” - rather, the fans, who give their hard-earned dollars to billionaires, deserve competence. We’re not getting competence. sorry Coach but I do not want to see the Pegula's leave. I want to see them succeed and I think they will. Neither team had a competent GM and staff running things when they got there and yes, they have made mistakes and made things worse.. At some point they will hire the right people and give them the time to turn it around. I have not given up on McD or Beane yet. They are bright young guys and they need time. I do know I would have done things differently. I would have hired proven experienced leadership right from the start. For the Sabres they have done an even worse job in my opinion. Lots of change, tons of bad contracts on overrated players, tanking which is setting a losing culture. Sadly, this culminated with hiring yet another inexperienced staff (GM/Coach) to run things. Despite this I can only wish them the best and continue to hope these young guns turn into smart hires down the road. When I go to Buffalo to visit, which is quite often, I see revitalization and growth for the first time ever. The Pegula's are part of it and they will someday find the right people to get things turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...he hired LaFontaine as part of the "name game infatuation" ala Wrecks........BUT Pat had deep ties to the Sabres organization versus Wrecks having none to Bills.....Pat hired Terry Murray as GM who traded Ryan Miller to Blues and Pat walked......both taught Pegula a stern "name game lesson" as a neophyte owner IMO....and he is doing his best to atone for his mistakes as expected and even bigger is his "mea culpas" with HOCKEY and FOOTBALL people to run the ops, WHICH will take time to pay off...... Who would that be? Just because they've been employed in some capacity by football teams for several years doesn't necessarily make them "FOOTBALL people". Beane's experience is in team administration, mostly in personnel (salaries/benies/insurance) and operations (logistics). He had 1 year of experience as an assistant GM. McDermott has been a defensive coordinator on two teams for about 7 years, again. Neither has had more than some peripheral participation in player evaluation and selection, and certainly no responsibility for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, SoTier said: Who would that be? Just because they've been employed in some capacity by football teams for several years doesn't necessarily make them "FOOTBALL people". Beane's experience is in team administration, mostly in personnel (salaries/benies/insurance) and operations (logistics). He had 1 year of experience as an assistant GM. McDermott has been a defensive coordinator on two teams for about 7 years, again. Neither has had more than some peripheral participation in player evaluation and selection, and certainly no responsibility for it. That’s not quite true - McD started as a scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: That’s not quite true - McD started as a scout. I stand corrected. It wasn't in his bio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 8:38 AM, JohnC said: Your post is well reasoned and there are many people who agree with your line of thinking. However, respectfully I'm not one of them. The approach McDermott is taking is the right approach. Although he is not being candid in his pronouncements it is apparent that he is going through a major rebuild. That is an excruciating endeavor that many fans are not comfortable with. Too many people believed that this was going to be a serious team when the actions of this staff have clearly indicated that the focus was on the future at the expense of the present. Talented players were let go for draft picks and cap room was made with these departures. The decision-makers traded down in the first round to get an additional first round pick in the following year. If that is not obvious what the strategy was then you are simply not paying attention. What is going to make or break this regime is how it handles the next draft with its plethora of picks and the free agent market. Without a doubt the most critical issue for this regime is going to be whether it can bring in a high-end qb prospect. I understand your nervousness and skepticism. (and also Kirby's) but what is being done has a great deal of coherency and strategy behind. It's painful but it is the right approach to take. An incremental approach may seem to be a safer approach but it would only continue the dispiriting status quo of systemic mediocrity. You may be worn out and frustrated by how this season has materialized but I'm not because I expected it. If you widen your horizon beyond this year you may have a better understanding of my point of view. My recommendation is to stay the course because it is the right way to rebuild. This is a typical fundamentally flawed JohnC take. Essentially you are saying "major rebuild was the right solution.....obviously".............when the truth is that the organizations in the NFL that are consistently the best did NOT use that method to get where they are. Greatness in the NFL more often rises from a run of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, bbb said: What DID he do to Pat LaFontaine? I have never seen a report of what actually went down. Whatever it was, Pat definitely handled it like a professional and left, never to return to an NHL organization. That is very telling because it must have been something so poorly handled and/or disrespect that he said F THIS and bounced. After the tenure of Murray and the aftermath, it is clear to me that my gut was right that Pat and Murray vehemently disagreed on moving forward, whether it was the Ryan Miller trade or more. We may never know, but I side with Pat on this one obviously. The Pegulas TOTALLY backed the wrong horse, because it cannot honestly get much worse than this. Edited November 23, 2017 by EasternOHBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: This is a typical fundamentally flawed JohnC take. Essentially you are saying "major rebuild was the right solution.....obviously".............when the truth is that the organizations in the NFL that are consistently the best did NOT use that method to get where they are. Greatness in the NFL more often rises from a run of mediocrity. The Bills have been mediocre for more than a full generation. Repeating what you have been doing is not a formula for success, it is a formula for continued failure. Another basic tenet for success is acquiring a franchise qb. The Bills have been without that caliber of qb for nearly a quarter century. Don't you think it is about time that they make it a priority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 56 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Whatever it was, Pat definitely handled it like a professional and left, never to return to an NHL organization. That is very telling because it must have been something so poorly handled and/or disrespect that he said F THIS and bounced. After the tenure of Murray and the aftermath, it is clear to me that my gut was right that Pat and Murray vehemently disagreed on moving forward, whether it was the Ryan Miller trade or more. We may never know, but I side with Pat on this one obviously. The Pegulas TOTALLY backed the wrong horse, because it cannot honestly get much worse than this. The Pegulas “back the wrong horse” with amazing consistency. Like, every time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: The Pegulas “back the wrong horse” with amazing consistency. Like, every time. "Now is the winter of our discontent..." in Buffalo with no summer in sight. I jut don't know what to think... it is as if Pegula is one of those CEOs like on Undercover Boss that really has little idea how their business ACTUALLY WORKS and eventually their employees either show them and the light bulb goes off, or it will get worse and they get replaced. Problem is, owners are not accountable like CEOs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, JohnC said: The Bills have been mediocre for more than a full generation. Repeating what you have been doing is not a formula for success, it is a formula for continued failure. Another basic tenet for success is acquiring a franchise qb. The Bills have been without that caliber of qb for nearly a quarter century. Don't you think it is about time that they make it a priority? First of all.......mediocrity isn't a formula.......it's a result.......a result that tells you that you were at least within striking distance of being good. But the Bills have bottomed out a couple times in that span..........didn't solve anything......in fact they've been fortunate to get right back out of that hole....don't take that for granted...could be one of those teams that spends 4-5 straight years picking in the top 8. Top 8 because only one of the 7 active SB winning QB's was drafted in the top 8.......Eli.......so here's the thing........it's not about picking at the top of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: First of all.......mediocrity isn't a formula.......it's a result.......a result that tells you that you were at least within striking distance of being good. But the Bills have bottomed out a couple times in that span..........didn't solve anything......in fact they've been fortunate to get right back out of that hole....don't take that for granted...could be one of those teams that spends 4-5 straight years picking in the top 8. Top 8 because only one of the 7 active SB winning QB's was drafted in the top 8.......Eli.......so here's the thing........it's not about picking at the top of the draft. No one is suggesting that you have to be drafting near the top of the draft to be successful. The roster is being reconstructed and the cap structure is being reworked. It doesn't matter whether you are drafting high or low if you don't evaluate the players well. The Bills have a number of high picks that they need to smartly utilize. Also the Bills will have cap space to bring in players who are not only better fits but also more committed a la Dareus as an example. If you want to believe that there is a quick fix to rebuilding the roster and making this team a serious team then go ahead and believe. I think otherwise. I also strongly believe that until the qb position is upgraded, probably through the draft, that this team will continue to be a stagnant team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...he hired LaFontaine as part of the "name game infatuation" ala Wrecks........BUT Pat had deep ties to the Sabres organization versus Wrecks having none to Bills.....Pat hired Terry Murray as GM who traded Ryan Miller to Blues and Pat walked......both taught Pegula a stern "name game lesson" as a neophyte owner IMO....and he is doing his best to atone for his mistakes as expected and even bigger is his "mea culpas" with HOCKEY and FOOTBALL people to run the ops, WHICH will take time to pay off...... EasternOH is the one I replied to and he made it seem like the Pegulas did LaFontaine dirty, so I'm still not following what they did - even though he posted since I asked my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I was considering becoming an NFL owner but then I heard you have to wear a suit on Sundays. I passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 God you are treating the owners like you would be firing a GM or a coach. Changing Coaches every 2 years does nothing. You need at least 3 years with this crew to have an idea as to what you have got. it's been 9 months. overreaction to the QB change. It was the right move. wish he would have stuck with that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: First of all.......mediocrity isn't a formula.......it's a result.......a result that tells you that you were at least within striking distance of being good. But the Bills have bottomed out a couple times in that span..........didn't solve anything......in fact they've been fortunate to get right back out of that hole....don't take that for granted...could be one of those teams that spends 4-5 straight years picking in the top 8. Top 8 because only one of the 7 active SB winning QB's was drafted in the top 8.......Eli.......so here's the thing........it's not about picking at the top of the draft. How many QB's picked in the top 8 made the Super Bowl? Made the CCG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, bbb said: EasternOH is the one I replied to and he made it seem like the Pegulas did LaFontaine dirty, so I'm still not following what they did - even though he posted since I asked my question. nobody really knows. it was all sealed via ndc. the facts are .. they hired him to run the sabres. then he was vanquished just 2 or 3 months later. they hired him with a lot of fanfare... and publicly he was saying all the right things. his philosophies on how to build the organization were music to my ears. and he had craig patrick coaching him up. it appears that his authority was limited when the chips were down at the trade deadline. there was a major systemic disagreement and he bounced. pegula, fearing the public backlash of a divide with a nearly flawless and universally popular spprts figure, likely bought his silence on the matter. imo, this, along with some of pegulas public statements since reeks of pegula meddling. there has been a pettiness on the sabres side too. lafontaine is scrubbed from highlight videos they show. they had a bobblehead voting process. i and a cpuple others voted a lot for lafontaine. he didnt "make" the final 10. a winner like pat kaleta was there... and housley. Edited November 23, 2017 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 4 hours ago, jmc12290 said: How many QB's picked in the top 8 made the Super Bowl? Made the CCG? Don't care about the CCG's.......don't care to discuss the David Garrrard's......but most of the CCG losers were also picked outside of the top 8. Regarding the guys that won those CCG's, making and losing SB's........McNabb, Ryan, Cam and Peyton reached and lost a combined 5 of the SB's in that time since Brady won his first. They are far outnumbered on that losing ledger.....not just by QB's picked outside the top 8......but in the second round or later........Kurt Warner(2x), Brady(2x) Gannon, Delhomme, Grossman, Hasselbeck, Kaepernick and Russell Wilson. Better question for you: How many QB's have been picked in the top 8 since 2000 and what % of those players have made it to SB's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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