xRUSHx Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Is a punt a turnover? Tyrod isn't so good protecting the ball when you put it in perspective that they have to kick the turnover after every failed drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: No he won a Superbowl with a very opportunistic defence. Including 5 turnovers in the NFC championship game, and a pick 6 to seal the Superbowl against Peyton Manning Their defence was by far the best at creating turnovers. 5 turnovers in the NFC championship game. They gave up yards and points but they consistently forced turnovers the whole year and wouldn't have went to The Superbowl if they didn't create 5 turnovers... I don't really see turnovers as being the mark of a good defense. I mean, look at ours this year. It's too variable. They were actually better in PPG than I remember, but they gave up a TON of yards. Brees and the offense really carried that team, I guess I won't say the defense was bad but it was well below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) On 11/13/2017 at 8:24 AM, dpberr said: I think he's doing what he's told 8 out of the 10 times. The other two times he deviates out of necessity. TT hasn't struck me as a freelancer. Ever. There's next to no audibles at the line, and unless he's flushed from the pocket, he follows the script. Remember, you've got guys preaching "process" and conformity all over the place under McDermott. Two things on this: 1) You're right, he's not a freelancer. He doesn't call audibles, even when the defense is literally telling him what they're about to do, he's afraid to change the play. If the Bills are about to pitch to Tolbert to the weak side, the defense could tell him to his face 20 seconds left on the play clock "hey, we know you're going to pitch it to Tolbert. Don't do it," and Taylor would just stare like a deer in the headlights, snap the ball and pitch it to him anyway getting him blown up behind the LoS and losing 5 yards. 2) On every play you have several options. "The Script" could be to look for a post route 15 yards down field as option 1, or a crossing pattern as option 2, maybe look for the TE option 3, all depending on the coverage the defense gives you...but you always will have the outlet pass as a LAST option with your RB hanging back for a quick dump off if absolutely necessary. Problem is Taylor's approach is "Stare down option 1 for about 1.5 seconds, if he isn't 6 yards open on all sides of the ball, RB becomes option 1. Dump pass!" On occasion he'll lob a pass to someone who has a couple steps on their defender, but 90% of the time it sails way over their head. On the rare chance he hits them, they have to stop their route, and come back for the catch, eliminating any possible YAC. He is incapable of hitting anyone in stride anymore, and has actually regressed as a passer since his first game starting 3 seasons ago. 18 hours ago, Sweats said: Honestly, i was a big TT supporter, but even i can't stand behind his piss poor performances anymore. Constant 3 and outs allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll afternoon will do that to a fans morale. I was harping on this weeks & weeks ago when we were winning, but people kept trying to tell me "3 & outs don't matter! Irrelevant stat!" Not only do they matter, but they're possibly the most important stat that effects all facets of the game. Everything from field position to time of possession to helping your defense to simply getting your offense in rhythm is ruined by consistent 3 & outs. Edited November 14, 2017 by BigDingus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 "You just have to keep him in the pocket and make him be a quarterback," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I don't really see turnovers as being the mark of a good defense. I mean, look at ours this year. It's too variable. They were actually better in PPG than I remember, but they gave up a TON of yards. Brees and the offense really carried that team, I guess I won't say the defense was bad but it was well below average. I agree that I don't see turnovers as a mark of a good defence but of course they help you win ball games and are often the difference in the game. The bills are a prime example of that. Saints forced 5 turnovers in that NFC championship game and they barely won in overtime. You're telling me Brees has a Superbowl ring if his defence doesn't force multiple turnovers that game? Its a complete team game, can't just win with a great offence Edited November 14, 2017 by billsfan11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 The one fallacy that has been perpetuated over the time of Taylor's reign at the helm is this: "He doesn't get many passing attempts because we're a run-first team by design, and the coaches don't call many passing plays for him! He's efficient with his limited opportunities!" (Then they mention his completion percentage) 1) He doesn't get many passing attempts because of his 3 & outs! When you don't move the ball, when you don't extend drives, when you dump off to the RB on 3rd & long every single time, you aren't on the field for long! Your drive dies before it even begins! You have low passing attempts because YOU'RE ON THE BENCH! If he didn't go 3 & out all the time, he'd have more passing attempts by simply being on the field more often! You'd have a new set of downs, a new set of plays in which you'll get the chance to pass the ball, and inevitably your attempts per game will increase! 2) His completion percentage is inflated by the number of checkdown passes he completes! If we didn't have Shady & Clay, capable of making YAC, his 160 yards per game would sink even further & look more similar to the Saints game. Reception Leaders for the year are: 1. LeSean McCoy - 41 2(T). Charles Clay - 22 (And he's been out for what, 3 games?) 3. Jordan Matthews - 22 4. Zay Jones - 16 5. Nick O'Leary - 15 So, we have McCoy alone with more receptions than our top 2 WR's COMBINED, and an injured TE & his backup with nearly the same receptions as 2 starting WRs. Throw in an additional 12 receptions for Mike Tolbert, a limited use backup, and we have 53 receptions going to the RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 4 hours ago, billsfan11 said: No he won a Superbowl with a very opportunistic defence. Including 5 turnovers in the NFC championship game, and a pick 6 to seal the Superbowl against Peyton Manning Their defence was by far the best at creating turnovers. 5 turnovers in the NFC championship game. They gave up yards and points but they consistently forced turnovers the whole year and wouldn't have went to The Superbowl if they didn't create 5 turnovers... Ok so I'll play. Saints were 20th in team defense that year we are 15th so far. Saints were 3rd in turnovers, Bills are first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said: Ok so I'll play. Saints were 20th in team defense that year we are 15th so far. Saints were 3rd in turnovers, Bills are first. The Bills were 5 and 2 with Tyrod Taylor when they were getting turnovers. The result when you give a hall of fame QB turnovers, especially in the playoffs? Superbowl. But don't say the Saints defence didn't bail him out multiple times. Can't win a Superbowl with just an offence. I believe I have proven that. No way they win that NFC championship game if they don't force 5 turnovers. You disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 14 hours ago, billsfan11 said: The Bills were 5 and 2 with Tyrod Taylor when they were getting turnovers. The result when you give a hall of fame QB turnovers, especially in the playoffs? Superbowl. But don't say the Saints defence didn't bail him out multiple times. Can't win a Superbowl with just an offence. I believe I have proven that. No way they win that NFC championship game if they don't force 5 turnovers. You disagree? That's a good argument but we all know ebbs and flows of the season dictate. The only reason they went anywhere that season was Brees and what you are witnessing is a defense that can't make plays because they are constantly on the field. The game really got out of hand because the offense wasn't able to sustain and the defense got tired. If the Bills were down 21-14 would the defense be so tired. Tyrod other than the first drive looked horrid and it snowballed from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Billzgobowlin said: That's a good argument but we all know ebbs and flows of the season dictate. The only reason they went anywhere that season was Brees and what you are witnessing is a defense that can't make plays because they are constantly on the field. The game really got out of hand because the offense wasn't able to sustain and the defense got tired. If the Bills were down 21-14 would the defense be so tired. Tyrod other than the first drive looked horrid and it snowballed from there. The defence couldn't make plays? Lol 5 turnovers in the game to go to the superbowl isn't making plays? And come on sir, I get the offence sucks. But you cant say the defence was bad because they are tired... Just look at the Saints first drive of the game. You are telling me they were fatigued then? They thrashed the Bills from their opening possession of the game. Fatigue is no excuse. Edited November 15, 2017 by billsfan11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 6 hours ago, billsfan11 said: The defence couldn't make plays? Lol 5 turnovers in the game to go to the superbowl isn't making plays? And come on sir, I get the offence sucks. But you cant say the defence was bad because they are tired... Just look at the Saints first drive of the game. You are telling me they were fatigued then? They thrashed the Bills from their opening possession of the game. Fatigue is no excuse. I am talking about the Bills defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said: I am talking about the Bills defense Ok then ignore my first paragraph lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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