Why dont reporters just ask, why change #1 rush offense?

[Dragonborn10]

The reporters keep asking about the run game without asking the obvious question. Why did they change to a zone blocking scheme? The only missing pieces from the last two #1 rush offenses are Felton, CK, and Gilislee.

It is a legit question. They could have redone the entire pass offense and simply left the run game as is. The formations are really no different.

I think the reason for the poor run game is more about the defenses they have faced and not scheme. But they faced 8 guys in the box last year too.

[Woodman19]

Its like asking, why do you have to move to a new room when you move to a new house when you liked your old room better. New system, new players, new concepts new results. West Coast offense is a passing based offense so the run game will suffer in exchange for a more efficient short passing game.

[Scott7975]

The reporters keep asking about the run game without asking the obvious question. Why did they change to a zone blocking scheme? The only missing pieces from the last two #1 rush offenses are Felton, CK, and Gilislee.

It is a legit question. They could have redone the entire pass offense and simply left the run game as is. The formations are really no different.

I think the reason for the poor run game is more about the defenses they have faced and not scheme. But they faced 8 guys in the box last year too.

Have a read...

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/3/15/14933170/buffalo-bills-lesean-mccoy-mike-gillislee-rick-dennison-run-game-zone-blocking

 

2017 LeSean McCoy 8+in box 35.29% of the time

2016 LeSean McCoy 8+in box 26.5% of the time

Edited October 7, 2017 by Scott7975

[stevewin]

Have a read...

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/3/15/14933170/buffalo-bills-lesean-mccoy-mike-gillislee-rick-dennison-run-game-zone-blocking

The theory presented in that article (and professed by others in the offseason) that the zone blocking plays present in Roman's offense would mean seamless transition to the new offense is not the reality

 

 

 

From 11th-year veteran guard Richie Incognito, the most senior member of the unit, to rookie tackle Dion Dawkins, there's plenty that still must be absorbed in the meeting room and perfected on the practice field. "It's completely different from what we've been doing the last two years, so we're learning, we're growing," Incognito said.

Quote

 

https://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/196560-bills-run-struggles-impacted-by-new-blocking-scheme/

[BADOLBILZ]

The reporters keep asking about the run game without asking the obvious question. Why did they change to a zone blocking scheme? The only missing pieces from the last two #1 rush offenses are Felton, CK, and Gilislee.

It is a legit question. They could have redone the entire pass offense and simply left the run game as is. The formations are really no different.

I think the reason for the poor run game is more about the defenses they have faced and not scheme. But they faced 8 guys in the box last year too.

 

 

It's not the scheme.

 

Greg Roman's rush offense was always effective.....it made Frank Gore look about .3 to .5 ypc better than he probably was at that time in SF.......but what made it EXPLOSIVE in Buffalo........more than a full yard above league average..........was Tyrod Taylor and the legitimate threat of being destroyed by deep ball.

 

Right now........nobody is respecting the deep ball.........the box is full more often and even when there aren't 8 men up......the safeties are still closer than they should be, which allows the front to be more aggressive.

 

Additionally........they've played two VERY fast LB corps(Atlanta and Carolina).........who have made some tackles close to the LOS on Taylor that might have been 20-30 yard runs against lesser groups.

 

Taylor is still an outstanding long thrower........but the talent outside the hashes is as bad as it gets in the NFL.

 

That said, I think they benefitted last week from at least attempting the throws........even if it was to a CFL-practice-squad-level talent like Kaelin Clay.

[Scott7975]

The theory presented in that article (and professed by others in the offseason) that the zone blocking plays present in Roman's offense would mean seamless transition to the new offense is not the reality

 

 

https://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/196560-bills-run-struggles-impacted-by-new-blocking-scheme/

Of course its not reality but people act is if we didn't do it last year and we did. Quite a bit. Did it well too. These guys will learn and play better in the system and the run game will eventually be fine. It doesn't help that we faced some pretty stout run defenses this year so far either. Denver shut Dallas run game down completely too. It also doesn't help that we don't really have a deep threat like the last two years.

 

What might also be reality is Shady is probably starting to lose a step. Its a well known fact that he is on the downside of his career and the large majority of running backs start to decline at 27. Shady is 29.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Scott7975

[JerseyBills]

Have a read...

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/3/15/14933170/buffalo-bills-lesean-mccoy-mike-gillislee-rick-dennison-run-game-zone-blocking

 

2017 LeSean McCoy 8+in box 35.29% of the time

2016 LeSean McCoy 8+in box 26.5% of the time

That # will come down as Taylor is proving he has to be respected in the pass game, but I think it's just an adjustment period,Shady looks phenomenal and is making more of an impact in the pass game.

 

Still though, one of the keys to last weeks win ,that hasn't been mentioned much was that impressive 11 minute drive to the 1 yard line that ended in 3 unfortunately, but 11 min with 10 straight runs I believe was a dominant display, the run game has shown glimpses , just got to get some consistentcy

[Scott7975]

That # will come down as Taylor is proving he has to be respected in the pass game, but I think it's just an adjustment period,Shady looks phenomenal and is making more of an impact in the pass game.

 

Still though, one of the keys to last weeks win ,that hasn't been mentioned much was that impressive 11 minute drive to the 1 yard line that ended in 3 unfortunately, but 11 min with 10 straight runs I believe was a dominant display, the run game has shown glimpses , just got to get some consistentcy

Absolutely

[JerseyBills]

Of course its not reality but people act is if we didn't do it last year and we did. Quite a bit. Did it well too. These guys will learn and play better in the system and the run game will eventually be fine. It doesn't help that we faced some pretty stout run defenses this year so far either. Denver shut Dallas run game down completely too.

 

What might also be reality is Shady is probably starting to lose a step. Its a well known fact that he is on the downside of his career and the large majority of running backs start to decline at 27. Shady is 29.

Shady has not lost a step. That's ridiculous, numbers don't always tell the whole story, he looks 5 years younger out there

[Scott7975]

Shady has not lost a step. That's ridiculous, numbers don't always tell the whole story, he looks 5 years younger out there

Its not a slant against McCoy. Father time catches everyone. Its not ridiculous at all. There has been a lot of study done on this and the large majority of RBs start to decline at 27. He is two years past that and has a lot of mileage. He still looks great because even on the decline he is so good that he is still better than most. Saying that he is on the decline or lost a step is not saying he isn't still a great back that can put up a lot of yards. He doesn't look as shifty to me out there, but thats just my opinion.

[JerseyBills]

Its not a slant against McCoy. Father time catches everyone. Its not ridiculous at all. There has been a lot of study done on this and the large majority of RBs start to decline at 27. He is two years past that and has a lot of mileage. He still looks great because even on the decline he is so good that he is still better than most. Saying that he is on the decline or lost a step is not saying he isn't still a great back that can put up a lot of yards. He doesn't look as shifty to me out there, but thats just my opinion.

I agree, 27 is the age where RB typically decline, I didn't realize you posted that, as I respect your opinion alot .

 

I still respectfully disagree, I just think the oline hasn't given him the holes. Denver,he had two catches , late in the game where he looked better than ever. I think he looks as good as he has ever looked, just not much room out there right now, I expected to see a decline honestly I just haven't seen it in his game personally

[Scott7975]

I agree, 27 is the age where RB typically decline, I didn't realize you posted that, as I respect your opinion alot .

 

I still respectfully disagree, I just think the oline hasn't given him the holes. Denver,he had two catches , late in the game where he looked better than ever. I think he looks as good as he has ever looked, just not much room out there right now, I expected to see a decline honestly I just haven't seen it in his game personally

I agree that the line isn't doing him any favors.

[Chandler#81]

That # will come down as Taylor is proving he has to be respected in the pass game, but I think it's just an adjustment period,Shady looks phenomenal and is making more of an impact in the pass game.

Still though, one of the keys to last weeks win ,that hasn't been mentioned much was that impressive 11 minute PENALTY ADDED drive, to the 1 yard line that ended in 3 unfortunately, but 11 min with 10 straight runs I believe was a dominant display, the run game has shown glimpses , just got to get some consistentcy

Fixed it for you.

To the OP, Yes! It's the burning question. If 8 in the Box is more prevalent now, then shame on the NFL teams who didn't do it for 32 consecutive games. This is the one aspect I feared and now loathe about this coaching change. Combining a brand new rushing scheme, while allowing excellent receivers to leave is abhorrent. I can't see any semblance of an effective passing game coming from the ashes of this unmitigated disaster this season, and any hopes of post season play will likely be extinguished by Veterans Day. JMO.

[8-8 Forever?]

I think it really would be fun if someone did ask Dennison that question, just to see how he handles it. We all know the answer (ie: "he's the boss and they'll use his f ing playbook -- you want something else go hire someone else"...). But I'd follow up with, "wouldn't it have been valid in training camp and preseason to stick with what this set of players have demonstrated proficiency at?" and see what he says.

 

I like the current WC offense approach because it keeps your QB from getting killed. Ball comes out fast, RBs take the hits. The zone read stuff gets QBs crushed eventually. Kap got beat up, RGIII 's out of the league bc of it and Taylor got hurt a bunch under Roman as well. The QB run threat ultimately is a threat to the health of the QB moreso than to the defense. That's probably why you don't see it in the league much these days.

 

You can see Dennison working more of the QB runs and rollouts into the offense. They're getting there. Once the season begins, big scheme changes don't happen other than during the bye week. We will see more wrinkles after the bye I would imagine.

Edited October 7, 2017 by 8-8 Forever?

[ALF]

McD is betting his career on what he is doing. Rex loss that bet but walked away very rich. I want to give McD and Beane a full 5 years . I just hope they can draft a good QB and Peterman is at least a solid #2 . This team is doing much better then I expected with all the player and coaching turn over.

 

I'm guessing McD knows what offensive scheme gave his defense the most trouble.

Edited October 7, 2017 by ALF

[Lurker]

Still though, one of the keys to last weeks win ,that hasn't been mentioned much was that impressive 11 minute drive to the 1 yard line that ended in 3 unfortunately, but 11 min with 10 straight runs I believe was a dominant display

It seemed to me that Incognito was being used a little differently on that series...more pulling and man-on-man concepts, which is his real strength. I suspect Dennison is a adapting as he gets more familiar with the personnel and I hope we see more of this.

 

The right side of the line is still an issue, but it would be great if the left side gets back to being the force it's been the past two years...

[BringBackOrton]

Ask Rex. He's the one who fired Roman after the Jets shredded his D.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisRaybon

LeSean McCoy running from under center in new scheme was concern of mine coming in to '17. McCoy 5.1 YPC out of gun, 2.9 YPC under C so far.

McCoy only has 12 runs from gun; other 59 under center. DEN (12-9) & CAR (14-21) tough M/Us, but scheme shoulders some blame for slow start.

That said, can't give enough credit to Sean McDermott & #Bills' staff for how fast that defense has come together.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

It's not the scheme.

 

Greg Roman's rush offense was always effective.....it made Frank Gore look about .3 to .5 ypc better than he probably was at that time in SF.......but what made it EXPLOSIVE in Buffalo........more than a full yard above league average..........was Tyrod Taylor and the legitimate threat of being destroyed by deep ball.

 

Right now........nobody is respecting the deep ball.........the box is full more often and even when there aren't 8 men up......the safeties are still closer than they should be, which allows the front to be more aggressive.

 

Additionally........they've played two VERY fast LB corps(Atlanta and Carolina).........who have made some tackles close to the LOS on Taylor that might have been 20-30 yard runs against lesser groups.

 

Taylor is still an outstanding long thrower........but the talent outside the hashes is as bad as it gets in the NFL.

 

That said, I think they benefitted last week from at least attempting the throws........even if it was to a CFL-practice-squad-level talent like Kaelin Clay.

Yep. 5 of his 21 balls were long. Two he completed to Clay. One was dropped by Zay. One overthrew Zay. One just missed Kaelin Clay he might have been able to get to. Just that kind of game should stop the Bengals from overloading. He's got to hit a few. Deep to Chuck Clay should open up field.

[Green Lightning]

Fixed it for you.

To the OP, Yes! It's the burning question. If 8 in the Box is more prevalent now, then shame on the NFL teams who didn't do it for 32 consecutive games. This is the one aspect I feared and now loathe about this coaching change. Combining a brand new rushing scheme, while allowing excellent receivers to leave is abhorrent. I can't see any semblance of an effective passing game coming from the ashes of this unmitigated disaster this season, and any hopes of post season play will likely be extinguished by Veterans Day. JMO.

Hope you're dead wrong but this Sunday will be an excellent barometer. We're down to four wideouts and none of them are proven or productive. I expect they'll flood the box and dare us to see if TT to Clay can carry the day. That said, if our D shuts them down I can live with a 6-3 win.