The Dean Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I agree More proof of trying to stay with the ruling on the field unless a mistake is obvious. Helps the flow of the game, I like it... For what it's worth, I've always thought that's the way replay should be used. There are some calls that are so bad, everyone except the official on the scene, knows it was a blown call. Reverse those. If you have to look at 20 angles, super slow mo, over and over again, the call on the field should stand. IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timekills17 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I've seen guys lose control of the ball while they're in the throwing motion and it gets ruled incomplete, but that's without being hit on the arm. So if that has anything to do with the rule, it's supposedly stated here: Item 1. Forward Movement of Hand. When a player is in control of the ball and is attempting to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass. If, after intentional forward movement of his hand, contact by an opponent materially affects the passer, causing the ball to go backward, it is a forward pass, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. If, after an intentional forward movement of his hand, the passer loses possession of the ball during an attempt to bring it back toward his body, it is a fumble. If the passer loses possession of the ball while attempting to recock his arm, it is a fumble. ...which, if I'm reading it right, doesn't exactly cover the play, since Ryan's intentional forward movement of his hand happened AFTER contact by Hughes materially affected the passer. Thus, I have to believe a fumble caused by a hit to the QB's hand is different from a ball that gets a little squirrley in a QB's hand and causes a bad pass, which I've also seen called incomplete. But again...why should that make a difference? It doesn't matter whether a RB has the ball hit out or simply drops it on the ground: they're both fumbles. I think they made the wrong call on that play. A RB running forward of the line of scrimmage can't make a forward pass. If he tries, i.e. the ball leaves his hand moving toward the opponent's goal line through his efforts, it's a penalty. Behind the line it would be the same call as a QB, of course. The key is Item 1-1. "If, after intentional forward movement of his hand, contact by an opponent..." Ryan's hand was clearly not going forward when struck causing the ball dislodging. If his hand/arm had been hit while moving forward and the same floppy movement happened, it would have been covered by 1-1 and been incomplete. Because it occurred while his hand/arm was moving backward, it's a fumble. To claim he "regained" control afterward is a stretch, as I'm fairly certain he wouldn't pass a flopping ball in that direction if he had control. Sure - it happens without being hit sometimes. And that's because the QB didn't have good control of the ball. Only then it wasn't caused by an opponent while his hand was moving backward. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 it seems to me, since they changed the replay decisions to the league office, fewer plays are being overturned. Perhaps that's just my imagination, though. I like it, take pressure off from the refs, they don't have the luxury of watching plays in slow motion. Call it as you see it, the office will adjust accordingly. By presure alone a ref might feel inclined to call or change a certain play to appease the home team. I have this feeling that replays are no longer being looked at in slow-motion and therefore as it's called on the field is the law this year. This is a good guess, but if it were to be the case they shouldn't show the slow motion replays live or on the stadium screens. the announcer on the fumble was crying "the ball moved but he retained control" which makes no sense, it's either moving or you have control not both. you either have control or you don't, I thought it was good call, Ryan had no control after Hughes hit and then pushes the ball forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I thought the two video challenges that went the Bills way were very questionable calls. But in a universe where we've spent the past 50 years getting screwed in those situations, I'm glad it was time we got a break... The only one debatable was Ryan's fumble/pass. And I think that's a 50/50 determination that anyone could interpret differently. Did Ryan really regain possession when his grip on the ball was knocked loose? Considering how the ball came out, one could easily argue no he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) From what I have seen around the league this year with outside eyes in NEW YORK OFFICE looking at replay vids it has taken the bias out. Also it seems they are changing some calls that would not have been changed previously. Going with "It appears to be more apparent it should be called that way" instead of staying on the first refs call. This goes against the "it has to be 100% conclusive" before they can change a call. In this Bills game they seemed to follow the need for 100 conclusive before change. Ryans INT for TD was inconclusive. There is a side vid that showed his hand swiped towards the sideline and did not follow through in direction of the ball. So inconclusive. Don't think any call would have been reversed. Hyde was called correct. He had control even though tip hit ground. However he fell on it also and appeared to trap(not good term more like ball moved ever so lightly as his body weight pushed it.) So inconclusive. Don't think any call would have been reversed. Bills caught a break on last pass play Tre defended. The jersey clearly pulls away from WR as he breaks and Tre was contacting him as ball sailed over his head. ref maybe just could not see the jersey pull and it was pretty slight. Bottom line is if they played the Pats that was PI or holding all day. Even though we would have been livid as pass appeared to be not catchable. Likely they would have called holding then. Of course those other calls always go Pats way also. Actually Atlanta has always received a ton of favorable calls since Matt Ryan has been their QB. I watch the Bucs games a lot too, and it always seems that the Falcons get an extra set of downs at least once in the redzone at some point in the game due to a highly questionable PI or illegal contact that had nothing to do with the play. I think if you look up the stats they are one of the top teams in 1st downs by penalty over the past several years. EDIT: Sorry that is the Pats that has been in the top 10 of penalties by first down the past few years (usually it is top 5). Atlanta is middle of the road. Edited October 3, 2017 by Ayjent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Watching the game, I was pretty sure the Falcons got screwed on the fumble/touchdown play. But after taking a really close look several times, it's more apparent that Matt Ryan didn't have control when his arm was moving forward. The ball kinda sat in his hand as he pushed it forward, which gave the illusion he had control. It was a very close call, and we were fortunate it was called a fumble initially. The Micah Hyde interception was also close, but clearly the correct call. By rule, the ball never moved when it touched the ground. The NFL calls this a catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) The only one debatable was Ryan's fumble/pass. And I think that's a 50/50 determination that anyone could interpret differently. Did Ryan really regain possession when his grip on the ball was knocked loose? Considering how the ball came out, one could easily argue no he didn't. I think its clear he didn't. Of course people can view it differently than I do. That's pretty much why it isn't over turned. If everyone views it different than its not undisputable that he had control. Here is a closeup... http://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914918924512366592 Edited October 5, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) He started losing control of the ball as his arm was coming back. Once you start losing control its a fumble unless he gains control before releasing the ball. On the field it was ruled a fumble. There wasn't conclusive evidence, according to the league office, that he regained control of the ball before his arm came forward. Right...the key is it was called a fumble on the field...if it was called an incompletion that would have likely stood as well because there wasnt really conclusive evidence either way...same for the INT...the key was it was called an INT on the field if was called incomplete that would have likely stood as well. Edited October 5, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Right...the key is it was called a fumble on the field...if it was called an incompletion that would have likely stood as well because there wasnt really conclusive evidence either way...same for the INT...the key was it was called an INT on the field if was called incomplete that would have likely stood as well. I agree if they called it incomplete that probably would have stood incomplete. The INT though. I think that one is pretty crystal clear that he had control of the ball. The ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as you control it. The ball never moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 They should replace him in the booth with Kurt Warner. :lol: Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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