WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 To be fair, I am used to having "tuck rule" horribly abused, even if its not official anymore. See the pantsing that the Bills gave Johnny football, only to have that fumble/TD overturned. It should, absolutely, have been a touchdown. This one, well, strict letter would have borne us out. If that had been ruled incomplete on the first call, that is hard to overturn. I wouldn't have been shocked if it was called back. But eff it, I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Can someone expain why the Ryan fumble was not an incomplete pass? That rule I understand, both the spirit of the rule and the rule itself. Now can anyone rationally explain the logic of the "tuck rule" of the "Calvin Johnson" rule, both of those have helped tarnish the game. My favorite is when a receiver gets the ball, rolls out of bounds which is not even part of the playing field but the ball comes out and is no long a catch, absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Trent Green was a QB, of course he would side with the QB in this call regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 it seems to me, since they changed the replay decisions to the league office, fewer plays are being overturned. Perhaps that's just my imagination, though. From what I have seen around the league this year with outside eyes in NEW YORK OFFICE looking at replay vids it has taken the bias out. Also it seems they are changing some calls that would not have been changed previously. Going with "It appears to be more apparent it should be called that way" instead of staying on the first refs call. This goes against the "it has to be 100% conclusive" before they can change a call. In this Bills game they seemed to follow the need for 100 conclusive before change. Ryans INT for TD was inconclusive. There is a side vid that showed his hand swiped towards the sideline and did not follow through in direction of the ball. So inconclusive. Don't think any call would have been reversed. Hyde was called correct. He had control even though tip hit ground. However he fell on it also and appeared to trap(not good term more like ball moved ever so lightly as his body weight pushed it.) So inconclusive. Don't think any call would have been reversed. Bills caught a break on last pass play Tre defended. The jersey clearly pulls away from WR as he breaks and Tre was contacting him as ball sailed over his head. ref maybe just could not see the jersey pull and it was pretty slight. Bottom line is if they played the Pats that was PI or holding all day. Even though we would have been livid as pass appeared to be not catchable. Likely they would have called holding then. Of course those other calls always go Pats way also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) Yes I was spending some quality time down at Leguna Beach over the weekend Nice. Good for you, I enjoyed my week on the Beaches in Florida 2 weeks ago. Edited October 2, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Can someone expain why the Ryan fumble was not an incomplete pass? The simple explanation is it was not a pass since he did not have control. The ball was "thrown" because his arm was hit and it continued direction arm was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) His arm was hit while going backwards, the "hit" forced his hand / arm forward as he lost his grip aka "control" of the ball. That is how I saw it in real time Edited October 2, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 One of the announcers also stated something about the rules changing slightly that the burden of proof to over rule what was called on the field has gotten higher. I thought it was just a case where they let the action on the field play out as it was close, then went to replay which was inconclusive. I'll take it all day long, but that's why they said " the ruling stands" did they not? Did they say confirmed? Maybe they did but it was close and if they called it an incomplete pass on the field I doubt the replay would have changed that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Regarding the fumble call: I know that if the refs see that a QB's arm has starting moving forward, and them he starts to lose control (whether because an opposing player has hit his arm or whatever) it is normally ruled an incomplete pass. I know the ruling in this case was that the hit by Hughes forced Ryan to lose control, then Ryan, trying to salvage something out of the play, attempted to move his arm forward and turn the start of a fumble into an incomplete pass. The ruling was that he never regained control to be able to attempt a pass. Therefore it was a fumble. Whether or not the call was correct depends on what the rules say, and I don't know the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Regarding the fumble call: I know that if the refs see that a QB's arm has starting moving forward, and them he starts to lose control (whether because an opposing player has hit his arm or whatever) it is normally ruled an incomplete pass. I know the ruling in this case was that the hit by Hughes forced Ryan to lose control, then Ryan, trying to salvage something out of the play, attempted to move his arm forward and turn the start of a fumble into an incomplete pass. The ruling was that he never regained control to be able to attempt a pass. Therefore it was a fumble. Whether or not the call was correct depends on what the rules say, and I don't know the rule. That's the rule. You lose control of it before your arm starts going forwards, which is what happened, it's a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 That's the rule. You lose control of it before your arm starts going forwards, which is what happened, it's a fumble. I seem to remember the announcer saying something to the affect that he controlled it with his finger tips his fingertips never touched the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I seem to remember the announcer saying something to the affect that he controlled it with his finger tips his fingertips never touched the ball huh? don't you use your finger tips to grip the ball? Sure, when you freeze frame he's got "control" of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) I seem to remember the announcer saying something to the affect that he controlled it with his finger tips his fingertips never touched the ball The more I look at that play, it's pretty obvious it was a pass. The ball moved but he never lost control of it. I'm amazed it wasn't overturned but it wasn't upheld. It was rules that the call " stands" . Or inconclusive . It sure looked conclusive that it was a pass or the longest fumble in history. I'm glad the refs blew it in the Bills favor for once , but the call was pretty bad. Put it this way, if it was Tyrod the board would melt down at that call. Edited October 2, 2017 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) The more I look at that play, it's pretty obvious it was a pass. The ball moved but he never lost control of it. I'm amazed it wasn't overturned but it wasn't upheld. It was rules that the call " stands" . Or inconclusive . It sure looked conclusive that it was a pass or the longest fumble in history. I'm glad the refs blew it in the Bills favor for once , but the call was pretty bad. Put it this way, if it was Tyrod the board would melt down at that call.I was wrong earlier when I said you could see air, but it doesn't change the fact that from behind, the one angle that shows exactly what happened, Hughes clearly hit the ball before the arm came forward, the ball moves, and Ryan clearly pushes it forward with his fingertips and doesn't throw it. Edited October 2, 2017 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I was wrong earlier when I said you could see air, but it doesn't change the fact that from behind, the one angle that shows exactly what happened, Hughes clearly hit the ball before the arm came forward, the ball moves, and Ryan clearly pushes it forward with his fingertips and doesn't throw it. The ball moved but it never was out of Ryan's control. The call was bad. It wasn't the old empty hand deal. It was technically a forward pass. I'm happy they blew the call, but they blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) The ball moved but it never was out of Ryan's control. The call was bad. It wasn't the old empty hand deal. It was technically a forward pass. I'm happy they blew the call, but they blew it. A ball touching one hand's fingertips of a WR or RB would never be considered control. Maybe in both hands because you could be bookending the ball and ARGUABLY be maintaining possession. You don't have possession with only your fingertips of one hand on a moving ball. I don't even think that is debatable. Edited October 2, 2017 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 A ball touching one hand's fingertips of a WR or RB would never be considered control. Maybe in both hands because you could be bookending the ball and ARGUABLY be maintaining possession. You don't have possession with only your fingertips of one hand on a moving ball. I don't even think that is debatable. It's clear the ball is no longer moving after the initial contact. It's still in his hand. I'd love to see the opinions here if the roles were reversed. I'm not upset at the call, but the benefit of the refs letting the action play out can't be overstated. There is zero chance if that play is called a pass on the field that it would be reversed on challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Trent Green. A nobody. it seems to me, since they changed the replay decisions to the league office, fewer plays are being overturned. Perhaps that's just my imagination, though. I think Tirico made this same point a couple weeks ago...It is interesting...Especially because the easy assumption is it would be the other way around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I thought it was just a case where they let the action on the field play out as it was close, then went to replay which was inconclusive. I'll take it all day long, but that's why they said " the ruling stands" did they not? Did they say confirmed? Maybe they did but it was close and if they called it an incomplete pass on the field I doubt the replay would have changed that either. Exactly this. If they'd been called the opposite on the field, those two rulings would have also been "confirmed". That's the way it's been gong all season ... the guys in NY have been reluctant to over rule the guys on the field without clear evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 The view straight on shows that Ryan lost control of the ball and was basically swiping it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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