sammy watkins subject on gmfb

[Buffalo Boy]

we've been #1 in the league the past 2 years for 'big plays' which are 10+ yard runs and 25+ yard passes. Last year we had 100 (77 Run, 23 Pass), 2015 we had 102 (70 Run, 32 Pass). Over the past 2 years 9.96% of our plays have been 'big plays' which is also the highest rate in the league.

[hondo in seattle]

we've been #1 in the league the past 2 years for 'big plays' which are 10+ yard runs and 25+ yard passes. Last year we had 100 (77 Run, 23 Pass), 2015 we had 102 (70 Run, 32 Pass). Over the past 2 years 9.96% of our plays have been 'big plays' which is also the highest rate in the league.

 

I think this is an interesting stat because some folks out there seem to think we have a popgun offense. We don't. Our offense has been producing both big plays and points.

[manbeast]

I do think he was forced on the field to some degree and then used a decoy.

But i have my bias about Rex and some about Watkins

Kid was injured, but Bills had nothing in the wings really. Tough situation for all concerned.

Go back to 2015 after (get me the ball!! ) and tyrod just chucked it at him often. kid made plays. lotsa plays.

Not sure who he really is honestly.

but it feels like business more than a love of the game to me. (opinions matter lol )

There was another WR that was exactly that, his name was Jerry Rice

[Thurman#1]

Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.

we've been #1 in the league the past 2 years for 'big plays' which are 10+ yard runs and 25+ yard passes. Last year we had 100 (77 Run, 23 Pass), 2015 we had 102 (70 Run, 32 Pass). Over the past 2 years 9.96% of our plays have been 'big plays' which is also the highest rate in the league.

 

 

Big plays: 100, which was 1st in the league

 

Big rush plays: 77, which was also 1st in the league, and only three teams were over 60

 

Big pass plays: 23, which was 28th in the league

 

 

 

Interesting.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Captain_Quint]

Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.

 

 

 

Big plays: 100, which was 1st in the league

 

Big rush plays: 77, which was also 1st in the league, and only three teams were over 60

 

Big pass plays: 23, which was 28th in the league

 

 

 

Interesting.

This makes it sound like Willie is trying to justify his opinion.

Who are the 'Powers that be up in Buffalo' that Willie Colon knows anyway?

 

Predicting that he'll be out of football in 2yrs due to his foot is borderline crazy talk, and meant to stir the pot.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Big plays: 100, which was 1st in the league

 

Big rush plays: 77, which was also 1st in the league, and only three teams were over 60

 

Big pass plays: 23, which was 28th in the league

 

 

 

Interesting.

Tyrod had 22 of the 77 (almost as many as he had big passes lol) on 95 run attempts. Shady had 34 on 234, MG had 16 on 101. It's also not surprising considering in 2015 Sammy caught 13 of our 32 big passes. This year he caught 3.

 

What I found more interesting was that the D allowed 98 big plays, which was 2nd most in the league. Giving us a +/- of only +2. The Cowboys, who had the 2nd most big plays at 96, had a +/- of +35. In case you were wondering, Zeke had 48 big runs on his 322 attempts. Dak contributed another 12 on 57 attempts.

[PromoTheRobot]

Girly man football bashers.

 

I suspect they were talking about his propensity to drop like a sack of potatoes when contact looks imminent.

I never understood why people have an issue with this. Why do you want your best receiver to be a crash test dummy?

[hondo in seattle]

they had a guest that was on the show(defensive tackle that played for pittsburgh not to long ago)

they were talking fantasy WR and sammy came up and he thinks sammy will be gone soon and that he "talked to bills players" and they said they feel the offense opens up more when sammy is not on the field.

 

to be honest im a little confused. discuss? LMK what your thoughts are

 

Just don't buy this. There's got to be a misunderstanding or misrepresentation somewhere. The Bills O is clearly better and more 'open' when Sammy's healthy and on the field.

 

Let's hope he's not gone soon. He is injury prone but he's by far the best WR on the roster.

[LABILLBACKER]

Sammy Watkins has less YAC in 2 years than Chris Hogan had last year.

 

Get him the ball! Despite what some say, he's really good.

And to think YAC was supposed to be his strength coming out of Clemson. Sammy has shown moments of brilliance, but he has to show health and consistency.

[TheElectricCompany]

He hasn't been able to practice much the past few years, that can be the only "hindrance" I could see for his teammates, but I'm not buying it .

 

Sammy might be the best WR in the league at tracking and hauling in the deep ball.

Here we go again...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

And to think YAC was supposed to be his strength coming out of Clemson. Sammy has shown moments of brilliance, but he has to show health and consistency.

 

The Greg Roman passing offense doesn't get YAC really. Its a lot of out routes, dig routes, go routes, occasional posts. No RB screens, no slants, no bubble screens.

 

Watching guys like landry and antonio brown rack up catches and yards by essentially running the ball with screens, quick slants, and drags must drive sammy crazy. Considering that is what he excelled at in college.

[CommonCents]

 

The Greg Roman passing offense doesn't get YAC really. Its a lot of out routes, dig routes, go routes, occasional posts. No RB screens, no slants, no bubble screens.

 

Watching guys like landry and antonio brown rack up catches and yards by essentially running the ball with screens, quick slants, and drags must drive sammy crazy. Considering that is what he excelled at in college.

It's not all on Roman, I did hate his passing concepts but like anything else it's a combination of factors. Roman, Taylor and Watkins all have their own level of accountability with this one

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

It's not all on Roman, I did hate his passing concepts but like anything else it's a combination of factors. Roman, Taylor and Watkins all have their own level of accountability with this one

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RomaGr0.htm

 

He had a concept of running the ball and not turning it over. If that's the goal, you first off need to have a good defense. The 2nd thing you have to do is simplify passing concepts to avoid high traffic areas, and "throwing people open".

 

He probably had a lower 3 and out % in SF because Gore is more of a hard nosed running back, and McCoy has a tendency to get negative plays.

Edited July 20, 2017 by dneveu

[JerseyBills]

He hasn't been able to practice much the past few years, that can be the only "hindrance" I could see for his teammates, but I'm not buying it .

 

Here we go again...

I know it's a strong statement, I should have said one of the best ,which I think is an accurate and fair statement. Not many WR can locate the ball and maintain possession like Sammy when it comes to the deep ball, at least imo, what do you think??

 

And like many posters are saying, his major strength coming out of Clemson was taking a screen, slant , any short pass and killing a defense. Why Roman, Hackett and St Douglas Marrone didon't use him that way is mind boggling to me..

 

Dennison's scheme should give him plenty of targets within 5 yards of the L.O.S, and if he can come close to what we saw at Clemson, he'd be an absolute handful for CB's to deal with, and one of the more well rounded WR in the league.

[JerseyBills]

Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.

 

 

 

Big plays: 100, which was 1st in the league

 

Big rush plays: 77, which was also 1st in the league, and only three teams were over 60

 

Big pass plays: 23, which was 28th in the league

 

 

 

Interesting.

Does Willie have a history of concussions?

 

He really got on National TV and said he believes Watkins will retire or be unable to play because of the foot at 26 years of age!

Yet every report has been positive as far as his recovery has gone.. That is one of the most absurd statements I've heard in recent memory from a TV personality. After reading that, his credibility went so far out the window.

He follows it up by claiming the "powers that be" in the Bills organization has told him of all people, some fairly negative comments about our 24 year old, # 1 WR.

Thanks for this post, it's beyond ridiculous what was said. He needs a CTE scan immediately!

[TheElectricCompany]

I know it's a strong statement, I should have said one of the best ,which I think is an accurate and fair statement. Not many WR can locate the ball and maintain possession like Sammy when it comes to the deep ball, at least imo, what do you think??

 

And like many posters are saying, his major strength coming out of Clemson was taking a screen, slant , any short pass and killing a defense. Why Roman, Hackett and St Douglas Marrone didon't use him that way is mind boggling to me..

 

Dennison's scheme should give him plenty of targets within 5 yards of the L.O.S, and if he can come close to what we saw at Clemson, he'd be an absolute handful for CB's to deal with, and one of the more well rounded WR in the league.

Dennison's scheme saw reduced production from both Thomas and Sanders in Denver the past two seasons, and they are much more established and proven then Sammy. Instead of finding ways to get arguably the #1 WR duo in the league the ball, they preferred to hand off to bum RBs behind a garbage OL. I hope he can incorporate an offense that highlights Sammy's abilities, but he didn't exactly sell me in Denver on how he could do that. I would argue that D.Thomas is the premier quick screen/slant WR in the league (him and Manning CRUSHED teams with that play) and you rarely saw that in 15 & 16.

 

What do you think is more likely, that all those coaches couldn't spot brilliance in front of them, or that Sammy just isn't all he's cracked up to be? I think you can tell how I feel...

 

Sammy is a good player with plenty to work with, but there isn't enough to say he is the best at anything or elite at this point in his career. More consistency and production will help. Pump the brakes.

Edited July 20, 2017 by TheElectricCompany

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Dennison's scheme saw reduced production from both Thomas and Sanders in Denver the past two seasons, and they are much more established and proven then Sammy. Instead of finding ways to get arguably the #1 WR duo in the league the ball, they preferred to hand off to bum RBs behind a garbage OL. I hope he can incorporate an offense that highlights Sammy's abilities, but he didn't exactly sell me in Denver on how he could do that. I would argue that D.Thomas is the premier quick screen/slant WR in the league (him and Manning CRUSHED teams with that play) and you rarely saw that in 15 & 16.

 

What do you think is more likely, that all those coaches couldn't spot brilliance in front of them, or that Sammy just isn't all he's cracked up to be? I think you can tell how I feel...

 

Sammy is a good player with plenty to work with, but there isn't enough to say he is the best at anything or elite at this point in his career. More consistency and production will help. Pump the brakes.

 

Both had 1000+ yards and 5 TDs. Yes a decline, but they also had Siemien and Lynch at QB. Sub 60% passers. Year before they had noodle-arm manning, and Brock O.

 

I don't know that his scheme was the result or just the massive decline in QBs from 2014-2015/2016.

 

But he's also never had like... a premier unit at any stage. I like the fact that he's had both good passing and good running units though. That makes me think he'll adjust to player strengths.

Edited July 20, 2017 by dneveu

[TheElectricCompany]

 

Both had 1000+ yards and 5 TDs. Yes a decline, but they also had Siemien and Lynch at QB. Sub 60% passers. Year before they had noodle-arm manning, and Brock O.

 

I don't know that his scheme was the result or just the massive decline in QBs from 2014-2015/2016.

 

But he's also never had like... a premier unit at any stage. I like the fact that he's had both good passing and good running units though. That makes me think he'll adjust to player strengths.

All the more reason to incorporate quick throws where proven receivers can break a tackle and get downfield.

These are the same guys who took the greatest QB of our generation and made him run play action bootlegs and take snaps from center at 37 years old.

I'm just not jumping with joy on the offense being this finely tuned machine where all player strengths are capitalized.

Edited July 20, 2017 by TheElectricCompany

[Stank_Nasty]

Dennison's scheme saw reduced production from both Thomas and Sanders in Denver the past two seasons, and they are much more established and proven then Sammy. Instead of finding ways to get arguably the #1 WR duo in the league the ball, they preferred to hand off to bum RBs behind a garbage OL. I hope he can incorporate an offense that highlights Sammy's abilities, but he didn't exactly sell me in Denver on how he could do that. I would argue that D.Thomas is the premier quick screen/slant WR in the league (him and Manning CRUSHED teams with that play) and you rarely saw that in 15 & 16.

 

What do you think is more likely, that all those coaches couldn't spot brilliance in front of them, or that Sammy just isn't all he's cracked up to be? I think you can tell how I feel...

 

Sammy is a good player with plenty to work with, but there isn't enough to say he is the best at anything or elite at this point in his career. More consistency and production will help. Pump the brakes.

 

 

Both had 1000+ yards and 5 TDs. Yes a decline, but they also had Siemien and Lynch at QB. Sub 60% passers. Year before they had noodle-arm manning, and Brock O.

 

I don't know that his scheme was the result or just the massive decline in QBs from 2014-2015/2016.

 

But he's also never had like... a premier unit at any stage. I like the fact that he's had both good passing and good running units though. That makes me think he'll adjust to player strengths.

dennison was at the helm of the offense in houston that saw foster and johnson routinely have big/huge seasons. so i'm not worried about him having trouble utilizing the talent he has on this team like electric company hints towards. not to mention what dneveu just stated.... two 1,000 yd receivers in denver last year with average qb play. dennison has a fairly solid track record.

 

and as far as watkin goes? he obviously has a ton to prove but i would also argue from the small sample size of him being healthy that he's arguably one of the best at tracking down those deep ones. i also think its absurd to think he's all of a sudden lost the ability to make hay in the short passing game. it was a HUGE part of his game in college and part of what made him an elite prospect.

[CommonCents]

 

Both had 1000+ yards and 5 TDs. Yes a decline, but they also had Siemien and Lynch at QB. Sub 60% passers. Year before they had noodle-arm manning, and Brock O.

 

I don't know that his scheme was the result or just the massive decline in QBs from 2014-2015/2016.

 

But he's also never had like... a premier unit at any stage. I like the fact that he's had both good passing and good running units though. That makes me think he'll adjust to player strengths.

It's fine to excel in one area as long as that don't mean you totally suck in another. As an NFL coordinator his passing concepts were deemed "elementary" and we had an extended conversation about how guys like Greg Berdard broke down his calls and the route trees didn't even match the QB drops. If he could have come up with some average play calling in the passing game they would have had a better handle on who TT is or isn't. I'm interested to see why Dennison does and how TT reacts. Edited July 20, 2017 by Commonsense