Sabres & NHL 2017-18 - Entry Draft on June 22

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[plenzmd1]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

. I'm so far behind you that it will take a generation to catch up to you even after you stop functioning.

 

 

We finally agree on something!!!!!

 

The advanced guys were on Risto starting about November last year..Sabres possession numbers are better when he is off the ice. 

 

ROR needs the proverbial change of scenery..maybe like Hall he will kill it in a new place. 

[Dante]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Gretzky's junior team, too. 

Who's that???

Anyway, the biggest rivalry for the Soo was/are the Sudbury Wolves. The owner wanted a logo that was faster than a wolf so he named them the Greyhounds.

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

We finally agree on something!!!!!

 

The advanced guys were on Risto starting about November last year..Sabres possession numbers are better when he is off the ice. 

 

ROR needs the proverbial change of scenery..maybe like Hall he will kill it in a new place. 

In defense of Risto when you are on a bad team the tendency is to try to do more than you should and play outside your boundaries. In my mind  Risto is more of a second pairing player than a first pairing. 

 

I agree with you that ROR needs a change of scenery but teams are not trading faster and more dynamic players for good slower players. With respect to Hall and the Devils their front office deserves a lot of credit for remaking their team from a Lou Lam trapping and boring team to a north/south faster team. It can be done but it is not an easy transition to make.  

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

In defense of Risto when you are on a bad team the tendency is to try to do more than you should and play outside your boundaries. In my mind  Risto is more of a second pairing player than a first pairing.

Risto is TWENTY THREE.  He's played nearly 350 games in the NHL.  Most NHL defensemen are 26 or 27 when they have that number of games under their belt.  You may be right that he would currently be best as a 2nd pair guy but his ceiling is higher than that. 

 

It would be nice to finally win the damn lottery.

 

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

Risto is TWENTY THREE.  He's played nearly 350 games in the NHL.  Most NHL defensemen are 26 or 27 when they have that number of games under their belt.  You may be right that he would currently be best as a 2nd pair guy but his ceiling is higher than that. 

 

It would be nice to finally win the damn lottery.

 

 

Risto is only 23. But as you noted he has played in nearly 350 games. For a player who has played in so many games there should be a greater degree of maturity and responsibility in his own defensive zone. He is far from being a Seth Jones who is a force in the game. There are a lot of factors for some of the unevenness to his game that relate to the talent level of the players he is playing with. My major criticism is that I am not seeing the progression in his game as time goes by for this young veteran. 

 

It is very appropriate for male hockey fans to lust for Dahlin. 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

So does BFLo get the #2 pick if they don't win lottery?

 

Watch the Blackhawks pull a Derek Rose thing!

[plenzmd1]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So does BFLo get the #2 pick if they don't win lottery?

 

Watch the Blackhawks pull a Derek Rose thing!

Each of the first 3 picks is actually a lottery now..Buffalo could get any of the top 3 picks via lottery(about a 50% to be in the top 3), but guaranteed no worse than 4th. 

 

And with the Rangers, Blackhawks and Canadians all in the lottery, one can rest rest assured at least 2 of them find their way to a top 3 pick

Edited April 11, 2018 by plenzmd1

[bbb]

12 hours ago, Dante said:

Hell, that's Joe Thortons JRA team. Damn right they are elite! So elite I have a Soo Greyhound jersey!

 

Bulldog wasn't on the show on Monday, so Tuesday they did the whole first segment on this.  He's super excited, and the kid really wasn't a prospect of any sort even a year ago, which is what I thought..............I found it funny that Gretzky was only the #3 pick in the draft in his year for the Soo.  I don't know how that could be - it seemed like he was scoring 100 goals a season since he was 5. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

56 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Bulldog wasn't on the show on Monday, so Tuesday they did the whole first segment on this.  He's super excited, and the kid really wasn't a prospect of any sort even a year ago, which is what I thought..............I found it funny that Gretzky was only the #3 pick in the draft in his year for the Soo.  I don't know how that could be - it seemed like he was scoring 100 goals a season since he was 5. 

And... Didn't he jump to the WHA... Indy Racers @ first before the NHL?

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Each of the first 3 picks is actually a lottery now..Buffalo could get any of the top 3 picks via lottery(about a 50% to be in the top 3), but guaranteed no worse than 4th. 

 

And with the Rangers, Blackhawks and Canadians all in the lottery, one can rest rest assured at least 2 of them find their way to a top 3 pick

Thnx... The NHL is such a farce, bush league... No doubt they will find a way to put the screws to Sabres and protect the O6... Toronto sucked and won draft, how convenient, they will now show that the lottery always doesn't go to the worse record...

 

...Wonder what "accounting firm" the League has in their pocket.  Probably Wayne Gretzky gambling connection. Amazes me why I still pay attention to the irrelevance of the NHL.  ESPN has the right idea. 

[shrader]

4 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Thnx... The NHL is such a farce, bush league... No doubt they will find a way to put the screws to Sabres and protect the O6... Toronto sucked and won draft, how convenient, they will now show that the lottery always doesn't go to the worse record...

 

...Wonder what "accounting firm" the League has in their pocket.  Probably Wayne Gretzky gambling connection. Amazes me why I still pay attention to the irrelevance of the NHL.  ESPN has the right idea. 

 

I feel like the lottery is very likely to convince teams to attempt a different type of tank.  If you're a bubble team, what's more tempting:

1. adding players and salary near the deadline to make a run and then getting bounced quickly

2. even a 1% shot at landing McDavid

 

Obviously it take the right player in the draft, but I'm sure it has and will continue to happen.  That's the exact reason why they can never do a lottery where everyone has the same odds, as I've seen suggested randomly over the years.  People want to question the integrity of the game when a horrible team tries to lose, but what happens to the integrity when a playoff-level team decides to lose?  I'd say that is so much worse.

 

There is no perfect system for this.  I wish they'd just stick with what they always had.  Even now, they're still tweaking the lottery odds every single season.  That one does feel a bit suspicious to me.

[26CornerBlitz]

Jason Botterill will hold his first end-of-season press conference today at 2 p.m. at KeyBank Center. We'll have a live stream ready for you here on Sabres.com and our Facebook Live channel. 

[Alaska Darin]

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

Risto is only 23. But as you noted he has played in nearly 350 games. For a player who has played in so many games there should be a greater degree of maturity and responsibility in his own defensive zone. He is far from being a Seth Jones who is a force in the game. There are a lot of factors for some of the unevenness to his game that relate to the talent level of the players he is playing with. My major criticism is that I am not seeing the progression in his game as time goes by for this young veteran. 

 

It is very appropriate for male hockey fans to lust for Dahlin. 

 

 

I think it's fair to say he's not progressing as he should but his confidence has to be shaky at this point and that is as big a factor as anything at the professional level.  Constant, bone-numbing losing is a disease that's hard to cure.  I know how I feel right now as a fan - I can only imagine how he has to feel having to play nearly half the minutes every night.   There's a reason McDermott came in and started cutting loose good young players who were ok with losing.  I'm hoping the Sabres aren't going to have to do that too.

 

Seth Jones started his career on the deepest defensive team in the NHL - a team that traded both him and Shea Weber away because they have so much talent (at this point I might take Nashville's AHL defensive squad over the Sabres).  He was able to play bottom/mid pair minutes and matchups and develop with consistent, successful veterans on a winning team.  All things aren't equal, so the results aren't going to be either.

 

The Sabres haven't put him in the best position to succeed and will once again this off season try to find another top pairing type player to join the defensive corps. 

[Jauronimo]

14 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

Risto is TWENTY THREE.  He's played nearly 350 games in the NHL.  Most NHL defensemen are 26 or 27 when they have that number of games under their belt.  You may be right that he would currently be best as a 2nd pair guy but his ceiling is higher than that. 

 

It would be nice to finally win the damn lottery.

 

 

Most defenseman are about 27 when they really hit their prime.  Chara and Pronger didn't come into their own until late 20s and weren't dominant until their early 30s.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

I think it's fair to say he's not progressing as he should but his confidence has to be shaky at this point and that is as big a factor as anything at the professional level.  Constant, bone-numbing losing is a disease that's hard to cure.  I know how I feel right now as a fan - I can only imagine how he has to feel having to play nearly half the minutes every night.   There's a reason McDermott came in and started cutting lose good young players who were ok with losing.  I'm hoping the Sabres aren't going to have to do that too.

 

Seth Jones started his career on the deepest defensive team in the NHL - a team that traded both him and Shea Weber away because they have so much talent (at this point I might take Nashville's AHL defensive squad over the Sabres).  He was able to play bottom/mid pair minutes and matchups and develop with consistent, successful veterans on a winning team.  All things aren't equal, so the results aren't going to be either.

 

The Sabres haven't put him in the best position to succeed and will once again this off season try to find another top pairing type player to join the defensive corps. 

I agree with most of what you are saying. But the Sabres situation was not the same situation that the teams you cited. The Sabres were essentially an expansion caliber of team and force fed some of their players before they were ready. The handling of Gregerenko was a shame. By playing him before he was ready and even earned a spot they arguably ruined him as a player to the point that his career was lost. 

 

I also agree with you that continuous losing is corrosive for players and for an organization. One of the first things that Botterill did was bulk up the AHL team and make them competitive so that players have an environment of success. This bedraggled organization has been subjected to failure throughout its system. That surely isn't a good situation for developing talent and a positive outlook.

 

The Sabres have talent in their system. It's going to take time for them to percolate up. From what I know of the GM he believes in player development and not rushing the process. He has stated that he prefers keeping players in the minors until they are ready to stay in the big leagues.

 

Looking back the former tough talking GM made a lot of mistakes. He made some big deals that not only didn't work out but ended up weighing this team down for the future. I still don't understand the Lehner deal. The Senators wanted to get rid of him and in the end the pick that he shed could have been a player who would be at worst a second line player.

 

Both Botterill and McDermott stress the process. It's a cliché but it is time tested for long term success. It may seem that I'm pessimistic but I'm not. When you start doing things the right way in the end it will work out. 

[Alaska Darin]

6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Most defenseman are about 27 when they really hit their prime.  Chara and Pronger didn't come into their own until late 20s and weren't dominant until their early 30s.

That's pretty much the point I was making, though they're getting better faster in today's NHL.  Variety of reasons, obviously but it is happening.  Risto has the tools to be a great NHL defenseman, as long as the mental stuff he's had to go through doesn't weigh him down.

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with most of what you are saying. But the Sabres situation was not the same situation that the teams you cited. The Sabres were essentially an expansion caliber of team and force fed some of their players before they were ready. The handling of Gregerenko was a shame. By playing him before he was ready and even earned a spot they arguably ruined him as a player to the point that his career was lost.

I think we're both saying the same thing.  I pretty much don't expect Risto to be Seth Jones because he wasn't in the same situation. 

 

The Sabres remind me of the expansion Browns, who were given plenty of resources to build their team with and pretty much squandered all of them.

[26CornerBlitz]

4-11: Sportsnet's Sam Cosentino on WGR (12:37)

Good discussion on prospects in the upcoming draft.

[Dante]

8 hours ago, bbb said:

 

Bulldog wasn't on the show on Monday, so Tuesday they did the whole first segment on this.  He's super excited, and the kid really wasn't a prospect of any sort even a year ago, which is what I thought..............I found it funny that Gretzky was only the #3 pick in the draft in his year for the Soo.  I don't know how that could be - it seemed like he was scoring 100 goals a season since he was 5. 

 

He was very young. I don't know I'm just speculating. I think he was 15 when he started playing for Indianapolis? I have to fact check that for sure.

7 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Thnx... The NHL is such a farce, bush league... No doubt they will find a way to put the screws to Sabres and protect the O6... Toronto sucked and won draft, how convenient, they will now show that the lottery always doesn't go to the worse record...

 

...Wonder what "accounting firm" the League has in their pocket.  Probably Wayne Gretzky gambling connection. Amazes me why I still pay attention to the irrelevance of the NHL.  ESPN has the right idea. 

I have the right idea about espn. Never watch it anymore.

[26CornerBlitz]