North Buffalo Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Disclaimer: This is a sincere attempt to understand what others see in McDermott. Not trying to start an argument, as I don't think we have enough info for a meaningful conclusion right now either way. But I am really struggling with this guy so far. And I am an optimist by nature and have pretty much talked myself into every single Bills coach (at least during their first preseason) over the past four decades. Here's what worries me: -Never says anything remotely interesting. Buttoned-down corporate speak all the way. And I know there is value in keeping your thoughts to yourself, but this kind of say-nothing style doesn't necessarily mask deep thoughts. It often means the person actually has no insight. The way he communicates publicly completely reminds me of Russ Brandon. That is not a good thing, in my opinion. -Seems to have read a few too many leadership books. He seems like he is trying to manufacture himself into a leader through notes and aphorisms and process. I am beyond skeptical of that approach in any organizational context. He doesn't seem comfortable in his skin to me - even the way he fidgets around in press conferences. He seems like a guy who loves the idea of being a leader, but hasn't discovered his own authentic approach. Feels like he's playing dress-up. (Again, screams Russ Brandon.) -Seems technocratic - thinks success will come primarily through control, detail, process. All well and good at times, but nowhere near enough to manage the seething, human, multi-variable complexity that is any football team. -Role in the Whaley affair is unclear, but optics do look like a bit of a backstabbing power grab. I admit this could be TOTALLY off. Here's what I like: -People he's worked with seem to like the guy. -Reportedly does a good job of connecting to and caring about players as individuals. -I have mad respect for Andy Reid, so I like the tree. I admit, my negatives are superficial and based on my own cursory observations, whereas the positives are substantive and based on the experience and testimony of people who have worked with him. But right now I just have the feeling he is in over his head, but has impressed the Pegulas with his organized approach, attention to detail, and stoic wrestler manner - none of which will make him a good coach IMO. I really hope I'm wrong, and I'm totally prepared to fall in love with the guy as things play out. But I can't remember feeling this cold about a hire. Even Marrone who came off as a total tool early on, somehow convinced me he might have something. Again agree with most of what you said and seems to be a good evaluator of talent based on the draft... still begs the question can he coach and no he doesnt have 3 years, two at best.... option on third with the talent on this tean now if he can coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Belichick is a master strategist cheater. McDermott is more of a practical, make the trains run on time guy. McDermott is closer to a Marrone personality wise. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Fixed I think both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Really ? The season isn`t even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Really ? The season isn`t even started. Well we got to have something to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Moulds on my A** Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 He's the anti-Rex. Talked me into him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 Really ? The season isn`t even started. So we shouldn't discuss new players, coaches, strategy, etc.? I agree we shouldn't have any strongly held opinions before we see what's what in September. I don't. Can't argue at all with those who say wait and see. But I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post sharing initial judgments about a coach/player who hasn't taken the field. It's a grain of salt discussion, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 He reminds me of Gregg Williams. When Williams was hired he talked about discipline, character... blah blah blah. He was very organized and methodical in everything he did. His interviews were bland and full of "corporate speak". He's also a defensive coach who others around the league respect. I really don't see the difference between these two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 He reminds me of Gregg Williams. When Williams was hired he talked about discipline, character... blah blah blah. He was very organized and methodical in everything he did. His interviews were bland and full of "corporate speak". He's also a defensive coach who others around the league respect. I really don't see the difference between these two guys. Well, McD, to his credit, hasn't banished fat coaches yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Disclaimer: This is a sincere attempt to understand what others see in McDermott. Not trying to start an argument, as I don't think we have enough info for a meaningful conclusion right now either way. But I am really struggling with this guy so far. And I am an optimist by nature and have pretty much talked myself into every single Bills coach (at least during their first preseason) over the past four decades. Here's what worries me: -Never says anything remotely interesting. Buttoned-down corporate speak all the way. And I know there is value in keeping your thoughts to yourself, but this kind of say-nothing style doesn't necessarily mask deep thoughts. It often means the person actually has no insight. The way he communicates publicly completely reminds me of Russ Brandon. That is not a good thing, in my opinion. -Seems to have read a few too many leadership books. He seems like he is trying to manufacture himself into a leader through notes and aphorisms and process. I am beyond skeptical of that approach in any organizational context. He doesn't seem comfortable in his skin to me - even the way he fidgets around in press conferences. He seems like a guy who loves the idea of being a leader, but hasn't discovered his own authentic approach. Feels like he's playing dress-up. (Again, screams Russ Brandon.) -Seems technocratic - thinks success will come primarily through control, detail, process. All well and good at times, but nowhere near enough to manage the seething, human, multi-variable complexity that is any football team. -Role in the Whaley affair is unclear, but optics do look like a bit of a backstabbing power grab. I admit this could be TOTALLY off. Here's what I like: -People he's worked with seem to like the guy. -Reportedly does a good job of connecting to and caring about players as individuals. -I have mad respect for Andy Reid, so I like the tree. I admit, my negatives are superficial and based on my own cursory observations, whereas the positives are substantive and based on the experience and testimony of people who have worked with him. But right now I just have the feeling he is in over his head, but has impressed the Pegulas with his organized approach, attention to detail, and stoic wrestler manner - none of which will make him a good coach IMO. I really hope I'm wrong, and I'm totally prepared to fall in love with the guy as things play out. But I can't remember feeling this cold about a hire. Even Marrone who came off as a total tool early on, somehow convinced me he might have something. I think your negatives are superficial, and based on your own cursory observations. I also think the positives are substantative and based on the experience and testimony of people who have worked with him. start and stop there. he's the coach, whether you like him or not is irrelevant, and you will like him more if he coaches a winning team, less if he doesn't. maybe way less given your in initial thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 He reminds me of Gregg Williams. When Williams was hired he talked about discipline, character... blah blah blah. He was very organized and methodical in everything he did. His interviews were bland and full of "corporate speak". He's also a defensive coach who others around the league respect. I really don't see the difference between these two guys. I hope it's in their people skills. Sending him out to talk to the press has given us a glimpse of his demeanor. I'll admit that the pool table/video games vs. ping pong take had me thinking back to Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 If he wins he'll be put on a Marv Levy pedestal and if he loses he will be just another bum HC for us. He hasn't played a game yet, I like his approach so far but unless he wins games that all that really matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) players seem to like him. Jerry Hughes and Richie Incognito both praised him. Players loved Rex too...doesn't mean much....on the flip side, Coughlin was not really a fun and loving guy and got 2 SBs out of it....Belichick is not a warm and fuzzy guy either... Edited May 2, 2017 by Iron Maiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I hope it's in their people skills. Sending him out to talk to the press has given us a glimpse of his demeanor. I'll admit that the pool table/video games vs. ping pong take had me thinking back to Gregg. Yeah I keep having flashbacks to Williams anytime McDermott speaks. When Williams came in he switched from a 3-4 to his 4-3, sound familiar? IIRC, the defense did improve under him, however the offense was largely a mess except for the 8-8 year with Bledsoe. They should be better defensively just because Rex is gone. I think their record will be determined by two things... 1 - Dennison 2 - McDermott's game management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Disclaimer: This is a sincere attempt to understand what others see in McDermott. Not trying to start an argument, as I don't think we have enough info for a meaningful conclusion right now either way. But I am really struggling with this guy so far. And I am an optimist by nature and have pretty much talked myself into every single Bills coach (at least during their first preseason) over the past four decades. Here's what worries me: -Never says anything remotely interesting. Buttoned-down corporate speak all the way. And I know there is value in keeping your thoughts to yourself, but this kind of say-nothing style doesn't necessarily mask deep thoughts. It often means the person actually has no insight. The way he communicates publicly completely reminds me of Russ Brandon. That is not a good thing, in my opinion. -Seems to have read a few too many leadership books. He seems like he is trying to manufacture himself into a leader through notes and aphorisms and process. I am beyond skeptical of that approach in any organizational context. He doesn't seem comfortable in his skin to me - even the way he fidgets around in press conferences. He seems like a guy who loves the idea of being a leader, but hasn't discovered his own authentic approach. Feels like he's playing dress-up. (Again, screams Russ Brandon.) -Seems technocratic - thinks success will come primarily through control, detail, process. All well and good at times, but nowhere near enough to manage the seething, human, multi-variable complexity that is any football team. -Role in the Whaley affair is unclear, but optics do look like a bit of a backstabbing power grab. I admit this could be TOTALLY off. Here's what I like: -People he's worked with seem to like the guy. -Reportedly does a good job of connecting to and caring about players as individuals. -I have mad respect for Andy Reid, so I like the tree. I admit, my negatives are superficial and based on my own cursory observations, whereas the positives are substantive and based on the experience and testimony of people who have worked with him. But right now I just have the feeling he is in over his head, but has impressed the Pegulas with his organized approach, attention to detail, and stoic wrestler manner - none of which will make him a good coach IMO. I really hope I'm wrong, and I'm totally prepared to fall in love with the guy as things play out. But I can't remember feeling this cold about a hire. Even Marrone who came off as a total tool early on, somehow convinced me he might have something. His manner reminds me of Belichick, as far as uncommunicativeness. Willing to at least appear to communicate, but that's what I see. Maniacal focus, to the point where he does come across as unfocused on anything else, including the fans. But why would you expect any new coach to be convincing. They're all risks. You just have to wait, same as you would if we'd hired anyone else. Yeah I keep having flashbacks to Williams anytime McDermott speaks. When Williams came in he switched from a 3-4 to his 4-3, sound familiar? IIRC, the defense did improve under him, however the offense was largely a mess except for the 8-8 year with Bledsoe. They should be better defensively just because Rex is gone. I think their record will be determined by two things... 1 - Dennison 2 - McDermott's game management Williams might have been a decent coach. But the roster just wasn't good enough, same as it hasn't been for a long long time. Those were the Rob Johnson / Bledsoe after his legs went years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 This man/coach comes highly recommended by lots of NFL coaches, assistants and executives...thats good enough for me. Everyone wants this magical culture change but the minute it starts its hey wait a minute thats not how we do business here. I said when they hired him that McD was going to fix this place,well hang on its happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Again agree with most of what you said and seems to be a good evaluator of talent based on the draft... still begs the question can he coach and no he doesnt have 3 years, two at best.... option on third with the talent on this tean now if he can coach? Let's not kid ourselves. We don't know how long he has. Especially if they can't find a QB, but he still produces a competitive team that beats a good team once in a while, he might be here for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Let's not kid ourselves. We don't know how long he has. Especially if they can't find a QB, but he still produces a competitive team that beats a good team once in a while, he might be here for a while. Pegs said at the original presser that this guy is long term 10+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Re: attention to detail, in my opinion it can be helpful, but may not be necessary (if you are a good delegator) and is certainly not sufficient. For Rex, we had a lot more info. He'd been a head coach after all. And I always liked the energy his Jets teams played with and the style of defense. I don't mind his personality. In fact, I thought it might serve us well. He seemed super hurt about his exit from the Jets, and I bought the idea that he wanted to plant a flag in Buffalo and redeem himself. At the time, I would actually have preferred the Hue Jackson/Schwartz scenario, but I saw things to like with Rex. Anyway, I will definitely give McD a chance and I wish him all the best. I have no idea what's going to happen. Maybe he'll be the best coach in the league, and I'll start buying lots of leadership books. Yeah, we had info on him, but IMO, that info wasn't good. He was with the Jets for 6 seasons and while they did make the AFC Championship game in his first couple of years they seemed to just regress each year he was there. Also, the lack of discipline and being almost more of a buddy instead of a coach to the players was something I found troubling. As far as the energy, it only seemed to be there when they were winning from what I could see. I will agree about Jackson or Schwartz. I would have loved either one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Judge him after he's had a chance to coach real games for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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