HappyDays Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 No, the view that our history needs to be sanitized, and that we should judge all men through the moral lens of 2017 neo-liberalism, and that anyone who disagrees is a bigot. You world views dictates that nearly every actor in human history, save Americans north of the Mason-Dixon Line roughly 160 years ago through now, was an irreparably immoral and evil person. It also dictates that the only thing that matters when viewing history, is if someone held slaves or not; and if they did, everything else about their lives is undone, no matter how great or how significant, because of the slavery. Your entire argument is nothing more than one massive Poisoning the Well logical fallacy. Finally, because you view is so un-nuanced, and completely dictatorial you make absolutely zero room for individuals who hold different view points, and rather than live and let live, you set out to subjugate them to yours; turning a blind eye toward at best, or make way for at worst, actual fascism, racism, and militant communist agitators. Yes, your world view is the problem. Nope. All I said is that monstrous slave owners shouldn't have statues. If he at least symbolized something good, that would be a start. But Robert E Lee statues only symbolize slavery and treason. No thanks. Of course he wasn't "evil" and he had nuance, just like Hitler, if you're being perfectly rational. That doesn't mean statues of him aren't problematic and send the wrong message. This is evidenced by the fact you've been deadly silent about the facts that have come to light about the "hack". It's been proven now there was no hack. Do you make a comment or admit you were wrong (for months)? Nope. You ignore it because you are curating modern history to your liking rather than dealing with the reality.. Haha I'm guessing you're referring to the Nation report? Within a week they will release an editorial retracting the story for dubious sourcing. Wait and see. Jefferson raped, beat slaves too, tear that down, remove Mt Rushmore it was built on Indian Land that we stole from them before almost wiping them out, get rid if this too? These are good arguments for taking down Jefferson statues. They are not arguments for keeping up Robert E Lee statues. If you feel so strongly about Jefferson you should start a petition. This is like when people say "alcohol is bad for you and therefore weed should be legal." That's not how logic works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 He's probably German. Enabler, maybe has some German soldier in his family. ?? Not out of the question... My 90 year old neighbor was a German soldier... He was collecting a German war pension, small amount, till he passed away in 2012. I always wanted to ask him if he shot at Americans... That of course would be Trump tacky. Probably not, he was Serbian. Shot at The Russians and fought Tito up in the mountains after the war... Came here to work @ Ford... Somehow how got out of Yugoslavia in the 1950s. My wife's friends are also German refugees. They (all the German born children, wife's friend's father, aunts, uncles) are Trump supporters, even though father, grandfather was shot by the Polish after war. Who knows if he was conscripted, they all say they were. Amazingly, all these Germans after the war and nobody was a German soldier. Only ones that get it are the ones that lived it. Like the mother, grandmother above. In her mid 90s she sees a lot of the evil of German/Nazi society in the way Trump acts. I know my Serbian neighbor passed away a few years early before this Trump demagogue, but he was liberal too. His wife, still kicking, dyed in wool American Republican because her father was one. Anyway... I ramble. So I ramble. These enablers are pukes. BTW... I am German/Polish. I gotta dog in this hunt. I guess you are against the Dakota pipeline then? Hmmmm My grandfather on fathers side was German from Posen so maybe Polish too. My aunt did the family history on moms side and it went way back before the Revolution into Virginia but found we were probably German there, also. Hitler only got 37% of the vote and many Germans tried to stop that little Austrian filthbag. Germans have a very liberal tradition, also. The 48ers were very anti-slavery and supported our Union strongly. Anyway! I only have 2 and a half hours to go before I can eat to make my first 24 fast. Been trying unsuccessfully before but it gets easier. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Nope. All I said is that monstrous slave owners shouldn't have statues. If he at least symbolized something good, that would be a start. But Robert E Lee statues only symbolize slavery and treason. No thanks. Of course he wasn't "evil" and he had nuance, just like Hitler, if you're being perfectly rational. That doesn't mean statues of him aren't problematic and send the wrong message."If you're being perfectly rational, Robert E. Lee was like Hitler." "Robert E. Lee statues symbolize nothing but slavery and treason." These are not things that a serious person with any understanding of history says. Again, your world view is exactly the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Haha I'm guessing you're referring to the Nation report? Within a week they will release an editorial retracting the story for dubious sourcing. Wait and see. You mean like the retraction the NYT printed saying their claim that all 17 intel agencies agreed? The one you also ignored? Right... Besides, Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. You've just proven my point. Facts don't matter to you unless you can comfortably fit them into your chosen paradigm. That's not how history works. That's not how reality works. And advocating curating history based on your sensibilities (which have been proven to be unprincipled) is how history gets forgotten and repeated. You're doing the work for the bad guys. Keep it up. And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use? Edited August 16, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. Try harder. And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use? You may also wish to ask him if he wears clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Out of curiosity, what brand of cell phone are you rocking? They probably own some Aetna insurance too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 You may also wish to ask him if he wears clothes. That comes next... he won't have the courage to answer either question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Salon, the NY Post and others are running with the story. Try harder. And don't dodge the question, what brand cell phone do you use? And now it is coming out that the report is under review by the Nation for not meeting their standards. For example, it gave a download speed that would have been literally impossible at the time given in the report. Like I said, wait and see. This is Rod "Lawsuit" Wheeler all over again. You have a knack for finding the best wild goose chases in the media. I don't answer meaningless questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Here's the next statute to tear down... Amirite?!?!?! And now it is coming out that the report is under review by the Nation for not meeting their standards. For example, it gave a download speed that would have been literally impossible at the time given in the report. Like I said, wait and see. This is Rod "Lawsuit" Wheeler all over again. You have a knack for finding the best wild goose chases in the media.I don't answer meaningless questions. You're wrong. The download speed is the evidence. The speed cited in the metadata makes it IMPOSSIBLE to have been a hack. You're real bad at this whole unbiased reading thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 "If you're being perfectly rational, Robert E. Lee was like Hitler." "Robert E. Lee statues symbolize nothing but slavery and treason." These are not things that a serious person with any understanding of history says. Again, your world view is exactly the problem. I didn't say Lee was exactly like Hitler. Try reading my post more carefully and see if you can spot the analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't answer meaningless questions. That comes next... he won't have the courage to answer either question. Like I predicted. That's not a meaningless question. It has everything to do with this topic. What kind of phone do you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Here's the next statute to tear down... Amirite?!?!?! You're wrong. The download speed is the evidence. The speed cited in the metadata makes it IMPOSSIBLE to have been a hack. You're real bad at this whole unbiased reading thing. When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I didn't say Lee was exactly like Hitler. Try reading my post more carefully and see if you can spot the analogy.I don't think you know how sentence structure or articulating ideas work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full. Why are you running from the simple and direct question? You've made it clear that anyone who had anything to do with slavery is so evil their statues must be torn down. Does that standard not apply to you? Are you not benefiting today from modern day slavery? Does the fact that you own an iphone built by slaves, or wear clothes made by child slaves, change how the world should view you? When they retract their story some time later this week or early next week I will be sure to post the retraction for you, in full. Ah. Okay. So you're an intellectual coward. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ah. Okay. So you're an intellectual coward. Good to know.Of course he's an intellectual coward. His logic is so much like a pretzel that he has mustard leaking from his ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Of course he's an intellectual coward. His logic is so much like a pretzel that he has mustard leaking from his ear. He only believes what he's told to believe by other people. He outsources his own thinking which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Again I quote orwell: "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." Truer words have never been spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Here's the next statute to tear down... Damn. Harry Potter completely let himself go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Again I quote orwell: "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." Truer words have never been spoken. Technology is important to consider in anyone's calculus on this matter. We live in an age where it's easier than at any other point in human history to spread and disseminate information. But our reliance upon the digitial: e-books over hard copies, search engines at our fingertips rather than using our own brains to store information, has also placed us in an age where it would be easier than any other point in human history to alter or censor information. Damn. Harry Potter completely let himself go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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