I am wondering if the bills end up overdrafting a QB but 2nd

[Buffalo Barbarian]

round......like this guy?

 

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/player/carson-wentz/24064/

 

 

 

I doubt it .. they're going QB in the first

[FireChan]

We dont know yet

And that's exactly why we still need to draft a QB.

I am not anti drafting QBs. Not at all. I have been as critical as anyone of this organisation not taking a single flier on a QB besides Levi Brown in forever.

 

I am anti draft one in the 1st no matter what. When you get yourself in that position you get EJ Manuel type swings.

 

I would be desperately trying to find a sensible way to get a Quarterback in either the 1st or the 2nd round this year. However, taking a guy I have rated as a 3rd round Quarterback at pick 19 or 20 when there might be say an offensive tackle or an edge rusher who I think has potential to be elite? I wouldn't advocate that.

And what has drafting EJ cost us? What elite player did we miss?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

How do you overdraft the most important position?

 

if they bust

[John from Riverside]

I am not anti drafting QBs. Not at all. I have been as critical as anyone of this organisation not taking a single flier on a QB besides Levi Brown in forever.

 

I am anti draft one in the 1st no matter what. When you get yourself in that position you get EJ Manuel type swings.

 

I would be desperately trying to find a sensible way to get a Quarterback in either the 1st or the 2nd round this year. However, taking a guy I have rated as a 3rd round Quarterback at pick 19 or 20 when there might be say an offensive tackle or an edge rusher who I think has potential to be elite? I wouldn't advocate that.

I am not talking about a EJ Manuel situation.....I am thinking more about a Bryce Petty situation....unless a known quality drops

[4merper4mer]

if they bust

ie Talleywhacker

[Buffalo Barbarian]

ie Talleywhacker

 

which is why he got that contract extension

[BADOLBILZ]

 

First of all Dareus was not the same year as Tannehill. The year he went we picked after Miami and took Gilmore. Secondly since Tanny went to Miami only one of the two teams has had a winning season. Here is a clue - it wasn't the Miami Dolphins.

 

Now if you want to argue we'd have been better taking a Quarterback every year of the noughties instead of the succession is stupid first round picks we made then be my guest. But the likes of Marcel and Stephon are players you don't pass up for Quarterbacks you have 2nd and 3rd round grades on.

 

If you treat the draft as a process of franchise building it doesn't make much sense to use a first round pick on anything other than a QB.

 

Question you have to ask yourself is if a guy like Andy Dalton is still performing at a high level 12-15 years after he was drafted......maybe you need to re-evaluate the scale that lead you to give him a second round grade.

 

Truth is when it comes to the draft........there are quarterbacks in one column and everything else in another.

 

The classic example is LaDanian Tomlinson being drafted before Drew Brees.

 

Halfway thru LT's productive career....there was no doubt who had been more valuable.

 

And LT was a GREAT player.

 

But in the end his value pales in comparison to the impact Brees has had.

 

Every time you pick another player over a QB in round 1.....you are taking the short term gain and increasing your chances of long range failure.

 

As for the concept of "wasting" a first round pick by using it every year on a QB.........I think there is some history that suggests that not having a first round pick often leads to finding better value in subsequent rounds.

 

Cases in point.....Thurman Thomas, Sam Cowart and Ronald Darby.

 

4 times since the Biscuit trade the Bills have entered the draft without a first round pick......and with the exception of a very bizarre Roscoe Parrish selection......they've hit HR's in the second round each year.

 

I don't think that is a coincidence.

 

But if you use your first round pick on a RB......you don't take Thurman Thomas in round 2.

 

I think a lot of poor Bills drafts have been created via a domino effect from choices made with their originally slotted first pick in the first round.........which, btw has NEVER been a QB since after their first draft, in 1960.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

How do you overdraft the most important position?

EJ

[Felonious Monk]

I don't get the Dalton hate. Just three QBs drafted in the second round have won Super Bowls. Checking out their first four years:

• Stabler made the playoffs 1 time in first four years; 0 SB wins.
• Brees made the playoffs 1 time in first four years; 0 SB wins; lost his only playoff game.
• Favre made the playoffs 3 times in first four years; 1 SB win. Only one in his career.
  {Two of the three did it for other teams, later in their careers}

In response to the argument that Dalton is horrible without Green, 16 of Dalton's 20 TD passes this year -- and 1,890 of his 2,378 yards -- were completed to receivers not named Green. Even factoring in the three games Green missed last year, he averaged fewer than 1 TD every 2 games. Green is playing worse, while Dalton is getting better.

 

Dalton is about to do what only one QB in NFL history has done, and that's lead his team to the playoffs his first five years. The other guy won it all in his fifth year. Before he was drafted, in 47 years, the Bengals made the playoffs just 9 times.

 

Sure, Dalton choked in four playoff appearances. Four games. Choked. If there's one fan base that should cut a little slack considering that number and that word, it's ours. He's a very good QB, and has just entered the prime of his career. I'd trade any single player on our team for him today. (Yes, ANY!)

Edited November 28, 2015 by Felonious Monk

[John from Riverside]

 

I doubt it .. they're going QB in the first

Do you think Cook is gonna drop to our pick?

[reddogblitz]

Let's do Dalton over Dareus. Do we have have more success?

No.

 

We didn't have AJ Green to throw to, we had SJ and Donald Jones. We also still had bad defense, historically bad. We would have had about the same record and run Dalton out of town a couple of years ago.

[John from Riverside]

And that's exactly why we still need to draft a QB.

And what has drafting EJ cost us? What elite player did we miss?

Chan....we are in agreement here......we are approaching it from different angles but in the end we agree.....QB talent must be improved on the team

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Do you think Cook is gonna drop to our pick?

 

man I hope so.

 

Hopefully his shoulder is jacked up enough and he can't throw until after the draft but if not I would trade up for him. It's hard to say what I would give considering not knowing are draft position and where he is expected to go but two firsts and a second isn't unreasonable for a potential franchise QB, which we desperately need and until we get one we will continue to spin our wheels.

[John from Riverside]

 

man I hope so.

 

Hopefully his shoulder is jacked up enough and he can't throw until after the draft but if not I would trade up for him. It's hard to say what I would give considering not knowing are draft position and where he is expected to go but two firsts and a second isn't unreasonable for a potential franchise QB, which we desperately need and until we get one we will continue to spin our wheels.

against any scenario where we trade up for a qb

[Buffalo Barbarian]

against any scenario where we trade up for a qb

 

why

[BUFFALOKIE]

I don't get the Dalton hate. Just three QBs drafted in the second round have won Super Bowls. Checking out their first four years:

• Stabler made the playoffs 1 time in first four years; 0 SB wins.
• Brees made the playoffs 1 time in first four years; 0 SB wins; lost his only playoff game.
• Favre made the playoffs 3 times in first four years; 1 SB win. Only one in his career.

  {Two of the three did it for other teams, later in their careers}

In response to the argument that Dalton is horrible without Green, 16 of Dalton's 20 TD passes this year -- and 1,890 of his 2,378 yards -- were completed to receivers not named Green. Even factoring in the three games Green missed last year, he averaged fewer than 1 TD every 2 games. Green is playing worse, while Dalton is getting better.

 

Dalton is about to do what only one QB in NFL history has done, and that's lead his team to the playoffs his first five years. The other guy won it all in his fifth year. Before he was drafted, in 47 years, the Bengals made the playoffs just 9 times.

 

Sure, Dalton choked in four playoff appearances. Four games. Choked. If there's one fan base that should cut a little slack considering that number and that word, it's ours. He's a very good QB, and has just entered the prime of his career. I'd trade any single player on our team for him today. (Yes, ANY!)

^I'm with this guy. I wanted Dalton from day one.

[jumbalaya]

How do you overdraft the most important position?

JP Losman and EJ Manual are two prime examples.

[GunnerBill]

 

If you treat the draft as a process of franchise building it doesn't make much sense to use a first round pick on anything other than a QB.

 

Question you have to ask yourself is if a guy like Andy Dalton is still performing at a high level 12-15 years after he was drafted......maybe you need to re-evaluate the scale that lead you to give him a second round grade.

 

Truth is when it comes to the draft........there are quarterbacks in one column and everything else in another.

 

The classic example is LaDanian Tomlinson being drafted before Drew Brees.

 

 

I'm sorry #Badol I cannot agree with your reasoning. It still comes down to talent evaluation.

 

I agree with your general premise that first round should be where you look for cornerstone positions of a modern NFL team - an elite pass rusher (whether an edge rusher or disruptive DT), a left tackle, a top flight corner, a genuine #1 receiver and, most obviously, Quarterback. Now if there isn't a guy that you had graded as a premium player at one of those positions when it comes to your first round pick and you don't have an established franchise QB - then you should pick a Quarterback. No disagreement from me there at all.

 

Now when you talk about the Daltons and the Brees of this world you can obviously say they were wrongly graded by the NFL as a whole because even if you get a guy who gives you the kind of production Dalton has thus far in his career for 10 plus years then he is worth a 1st round pick.

 

My point is simply that you will fail if you set yourself into a preconceived mindset that it "has to be a QB" every single year. There are many more guys that you would have reached for that would have been dreadful picks if you had taken that approach every year than there would have been Daltons and Brees and you would have missed some elite talents.

 

For me the approach to then 1st round of the draft should always be:

 

1) Do I have an established franchise Quarterback? If the answer is no then when it gets to your pick:-

 

2) Is there a Quarterback worth a 1st round pick? If there is you pick him. If there isn't?

 

3) Is there a player at a cornerstone position other than Quarterback that has a 1st round grade and I think has the potential to be an elite player? If there is you pick him. If there isn't you can consider trading back, otherwise...... you pick the highest Quarterback on your board.

 

That would be my approach until I had my guy.

Edited November 28, 2015 by GunnerBill

[FireChan]

 

I'm sorry #Badol I cannot agree with your reasoning. It still comes down to talent evaluation.

 

I agree with your general premise that first round should be where you look for cornerstone positions of a modern NFL team - an elite pass rusher (whether an edge rusher or disruptive DT), a left tackle, a top flight corner, a genuine #1 receiver and, most obviously, Quarterback. Now if there isn't a guy that you had graded as a premium player at one of those positions when it comes to your first round pick and you don't have an established franchise QB - then you should pick a Quarterback. No disagreement from me there at all.

 

Now when you talk about the Daltons and the Brees of this world you can obviously say they were wrongly graded by the NFL as a whole because even if you get a guy who gives you the kind of production Dalton has thus far in his career for 10 plus years then he is worth a 1st round pick.

 

My point is simply that you will fail if you set yourself into a preconceived mindset that it "has to be a QB" every single year. There are many more guys that you would have reached for that would have been dreadful picks if you had taken that approach every year than there would have been Daltons and Brees and you would have missed some elite talents.

 

For me the approach to then 1st round of the draft should always be:

 

1) Do I have an established franchise Quarterback? If the answer is no then when it gets to your pick:-

 

2) Is there a Quarterback worth a 1st round pick? If there is you pick him. If there isn't?

 

3) Is there a player at a cornerstone position other than Quarterback that has a 1st round grade and I think has the potential to be an elite player? If there is you pick him. If there isn't you can consider trading back, otherwise...... you pick the highest Quarterback on your board.

 

That would be my approach until I had my guy.

And that's the approach that's gotten us nowhere.

[BuffaloFan68]

I say we need to find a way to get Cook & then draft the biggest/nastiest LB out there.