I know nonone would actually say it but do you think Whaley might actu

[GunnerBill]

The Browns have fired everybody every year for the last three years, and now finally have a team with a winning record.

 

I've stated my position I am on the fence about Marrone - can't decided if I want him to stay or go..... but this is a rather strange take. The Browns have blown it up and started again for 3 years in a row and had two 5 win seasons and are now 7-6 (the same as us). We were 1 win better than the Browns last year and now have the exact same record (with a win against them) through 13 weeks. That hardly suggests it is the way to go to me. In fact I would say that supports the theory that you keep the band together if anything.

[BillsVet]

I think it's funny to read all the people here who want to fire Marone because he has not been able to win despite having plenty of talent on the roster, and then they want to fire Whaley (and excoriate Nix whenever they get the chance) for the bad job he's done as GM. Who do they think GOT all this talent that Marone is wasting? The tooth fairy?

 

You can't hold both of these opinions at the same time.

 

Does Marrone make the team better? Does he do more with above average talent? Or is the get out of jail free card that he doesn't have a QB instantly give him more time? Because he's the HC and in concert with the GM, helps to make decisions on personnel. Both Whaley and Marrone are tied together and therefore both have failed should they fail to reach the playoffs. A lot of people said Nix improved the talent, that Whaley continued it, etc. Well, we're still looking for Buddy's baby and it hasn't come.

 

How much time do you need in the modern NFL to put a team on the field to make the playoffs? Because it's a lot harder to go from 8 to 10-11 wins than it is to go from 6 to 8. And they're not ready to take that leap unless there's a big improvement on the offensive side of the ball.

 

This is the best Bills team in ten years. Hamstrung by crappy quarterbacking, they will finish 8-8, the best record in 10 years.

Progress is being made; the roster is better. We could be in contention next year with the right QB.

I don't want to start over again with a new coach and staff. I like Whaley.

Bring everybody back, get a QB and let's go!

 

Settling for mediocre to average football isn't what I'd highlight for a franchise that's been riding that train for the better part of 15 years. Because right now, they're not worthy of making the playoffs and there's no indication the current management and staff in place are up for that challenge. The goal in 2014 was to make the playoffs, given the trade for Sammy, signing of Orton, improvement on defense in 2013-14, et al. But they've fallen back to average when people expecting playoffs. I remember people talking progress in 2006-07 when DJ had them on the heroic march to 7-9. When they did the same thing in 2008 (starting 5-1 and then going 2-8 to finish 7-9) people weren't enthused.

[dave mcbride]

Does Marrone make the team better? Does he do more with above average talent? Or is the get out of jail free card that he doesn't have a QB instantly give him more time? Because he's the HC and in concert with the GM, helps to make decisions on personnel. Both Whaley and Marrone are tied together and therefore both have failed should they fail to reach the playoffs. A lot of people said Nix improved the talent, that Whaley continued it, etc. Well, we're still looking for Buddy's baby and it hasn't come.

 

All true, but since Whaley took over not one good QB has come free on the open market (draft or FA). Not one. The simple fact of the matter is that you simply cannot be a consistent winner in the NFL without an above average (at least) QB. The college QBs available last year were terrible, unfortunately, and this past season the Bills weren't going to trade up and take Bortles. The one arguable thing they could have done is take Manziel, who I think has more potential to be good than many others here. We shall see.

Edited December 10, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Punching Bag]

Think is more likely the GM will tell him he needs more help and have assistant head coach hired like they did in Dallass since money probably will not be as big as issue.

[GunnerBill]

I remember people talking progress in 2006-07 when DJ had them on the heroic march to 7-9. When they did the same thing in 2008 (starting 5-1 and then going 2-8 to finish 7-9) people weren't enthused.

 

Of course they weren't because the progress had stalled. Are you saying that because the Jauron team matched 7-9 with another 7-9 that this Bills team will repeat this season's record next season (be that 7-9 or 8-8)? And that we shouldn't give Marrone a chance to build on the progress because we did that with Jauron and it didn't work?

 

I'm no Marrone lover but I can't help but feel that some people want to put 15 years of failure on him when he arrived less than 2 full seasons ago. If Marrone goes say 8-8 this year, stays and goes 8-8 next year I think you will find a lot more firmly on the Marrone out bandwaggon, yours truly included.

[Mickey]

I think there is a very good chance Marrone is coming back but honestly, I think that depends more on whether the new owner wants to put his stamp on the team right away or whether he wants to get his feet wet as an owner.

 

It would be easy if the team was not a contender but it is, especially the defense. This isn't a team that needs a top to bottom rebuild, it needs a few guards and a good QB, not a hall of fame guy mind you, just a guy worth his paycheck, no more, no less. This team is close and firing Marrone would be a huge step back. That would lead to a whole new coaching staff, new schemes, new strategies, everything and everybody going back to square one.

 

If that is what Pegula wants, then he might as well start the rebuild early but I think that the wiser course for him, with a team this close, is to see what Marrone can come up with next year and maybe even one more year after. Pegula can use the time to learn how to be an owner in the NFL rather than just jumping in with a house cleaning and at the same time he can see if this team really is as close as it looks to being not just "in the hunt" but a solid pick for the play offs from the get go.

[BillsVet]

All true, but since Whaley took over not one good QB has come free on the open market (draft or FA). Not one. The simple fact of the matter is that you simply cannot be a consistent winner in the NFL without an above average (at least) QB. The college QBs available last year were terrible, unfortunately, and this past season the Bills weren't going to trade up and take Bortles. The one arguable thing they could have done is take Manziel, who I think has more potential to be good than many others here. We shall see.

 

Not everyone can be Ryan Grigson and walk into a job with the top pick and have Andrew Luck fall into your lap. I get that the pickings have been slim at QB since 2013, but the Bills have approached the QB position as if they were waiting for their collective ship to come in. Well, I say swim out to it. You keep trying to get the QB until you know you've got one. The Bills have done anything but, going with a guy, seeing that he's not good enough, then trying someone new, and wasting years in the process. A lot of people here say you can't evaluate Marrone until he gets a QB. Well, who's responsible for obtaining that guy? It's Whaley and Marrone, but for the better part of 2 off-seasons and a regular season they felt comfortable with Manuel. He's proven to not be up to the task. That's on the GM and HC.

 

I know surface fans don't like to talk strategic vision for building a team, but Buddy Nix refusing to draft a young guy in 2011-12 is what has given us the situation Buffalo's in now. You can't say there haven't been options since 2013 without recognizing that past mistakes can affect future seasons. This isn't all Whaley's fault, but the approach since 2013 has been very passive and not consistent with how winning teams address the position.

 

Of course they weren't because the progress had stalled. Are you saying that because the Jauron team matched 7-9 with another 7-9 that this Bills team will repeat this season's record next season (be that 7-9 or 8-8)? And that we shouldn't give Marrone a chance to build on the progress because we did that with Jauron and it didn't work?

 

I'm no Marrone lover but I can't help but feel that some people want to put 15 years of failure on him when he arrived less than 2 full seasons ago. If Marrone goes say 8-8 this year, stays and goes 8-8 next year I think you will find a lot more firmly on the Marrone out bandwaggon, yours truly included.

 

Dick Jauron took below average to average talent and made it a below average to average team. Now, Doug Marrone is taking above average talent and making them average to below average. Some will say that because he doesn't have a good QB that somehow he's exempt from criticism and needs another year. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton QBing the Cardinals.

 

Is Doug Marrone going to magically become a better HC in year 3? Is he trending up or stagnated? I tend to think the latter, as evidenced by the decisions I've seen him make this year. He's not innovative, not someone who knows his own talent, and hasn't improved the offense. I guess we can cue someone to say it's not his fault, but I don't need another season to see that.

 

Marrone isn't responsible for 15 years of failure. The point is, you can't continue being mediocre, which is what the Bills are. Next year their best players under contract for 2015 will be a year older and the window closes, unless you somehow begin replacing talent that departs or declines.

[JohnC]

Not everyone can be Ryan Grigson and walk into a job with the top pick and have Andrew Luck fall into your lap. I get that the pickings have been slim at QB since 2013, but the Bills have approached the QB position as if they were waiting for their collective ship to come in. Well, I say swim out to it. You keep trying to get the QB until you know you've got one. The Bills have done anything but, going with a guy, seeing that he's not good enough, then trying someone new, and wasting years in the process. A lot of people here say you can't evaluate Marrone until he gets a QB. Well, who's responsible for obtaining that guy? It's Whaley and Marrone, but for the better part of 2 off-seasons and a regular season they felt comfortable with Manuel. He's proven to not be up to the task. That's on the GM and HC.

 

I know surface fans don't like to talk strategic vision for building a team, but Buddy Nix refusing to draft a young guy in 2011-12 is what has given us the situation Buffalo's in now. You can't say there haven't been options since 2013 without recognizing that past mistakes can affect future seasons. This isn't all Whaley's fault, but the approach since 2013 has been very passive and not consistent with how winning teams address the position.

 

 

 

Dick Jauron took below average to average talent and made it a below average to average team. Now, Doug Marrone is taking above average talent and making them average to below average. Some will say that because he doesn't have a good QB that somehow he's exempt from criticism and needs another year. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton QBing the Cardinals.

 

Is Doug Marrone going to magically become a better HC in year 3? Is he trending up or stagnated? I tend to think the latter, as evidenced by the decisions I've seen him make this year. He's not innovative, not someone who knows his own talent, and hasn't improved the offense. I guess we can cue someone to say it's not his fault, but I don't need another season to see that.

 

Marrone isn't responsible for 15 years of failure. The point is, you can't continue being mediocre, which is what the Bills are. Next year their best players under contract for 2015 will be a year older and the window closes, unless you somehow begin replacing talent that departs or declines.

 

You are right that you can't blame Marrone for the prior failed generation. But how do you fairly judge a HC that doesn't have a credible qb. If he had an average caliber starting qb then I would be more receptive to damning him. But he, and anyone else at the helm, is doomed to fail until a respectable person is taking the snaps. The HC has a good defense that is playing up to its talent level. But that positive segment of the roster is squandered because the offense can't function with sub-par qbing.

 

It doesn't matter how innovative you are on the offensive side of the ball of the ball if the person taking the snaps can't play at a reasonable level. That is not the HC's fault. That is a front office miscue. Give the HC creidt for being decisive in benching his overwhelmed young qb. That move salvaged the season. The struggling youngster was replaced by a mediocre vagabound qb who is at best a mediocre backup. That's what the HC has to work with.

 

No replacement of the coaching staff is going to make a greater impact than securing a competent qb. Pegula can hire all the high priced football consultants he wants. He is wasting his money. Any fool (including me) can see that unless that position is dramatically upgraded all the other actions mean nothing.

 

If the Bills are counting on EJ to make a quantum leap next year and lead this franchise into a serious playoff contention they are taking a big gamble. Are there free agent qbs on the market who can at least be a reasonable bridge qb until a long term franchise qb is acquired? Possibly? That is a front office responsibility more than it is a HC responsibility. Until the qb situation is clarified churning the coaching staff over is an act of futility.

 

I hate to look backwards but Buddy Nix set this franchise back by a number of years because he was hideously incompetent. The former owner demonstrated his lack of football common sense when he hired Levy/Brandon/ Nix to run the operation. The outcome he got was the outcome that was preordained with his not only bad but weirdness in staffing judgment.

Edited December 10, 2014 by JohnC

[GunnerBill]

Dick Jauron took below average to average talent and made it a below average to average team. Now, Doug Marrone is taking above average talent and making them average to below average. Some will say that because he doesn't have a good QB that somehow he's exempt from criticism and needs another year. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton QBing the Cardinals.

 

I don't particularly disagree with any of that I think Marrone has an average team that will probably end with the ultimate average record of 8-8 with the talent to be 10 win team. But I don't know how any of it relates to Jauron that is my question. That Jauron bumped along at 7-9 for 3 years is absolutely no indicator of what will happen next year to this team if, as is likely, Marrone survives.

 

Is Doug Marrone going to magically become a better HC in year 3? Is he trending up or stagnated? I tend to think the latter, as evidenced by the decisions I've seen him make this year. He's not innovative, not someone who knows his own talent, and hasn't improved the offense. I guess we can cue someone to say it's not his fault, but I don't need another season to see that.

 

I think he has done a better job as Head Coach this year than he did as Head Coach last year and that is reflected in the record. Has he done a massively better job? No - and that is also indicated in the record. Will he get better? I honestly don't know. I see some of the same problems you do and that's why despite the fact that I have seen improvement I've not seen enough to bang the drum for keeping him.

 

Marrone isn't responsible for 15 years of failure. The point is, you can't continue being mediocre, which is what the Bills are. Next year their best players under contract for 2015 will be a year older and the window closes, unless you somehow begin replacing talent that departs or declines.

 

Of course. The question is how do you stop being mediocre. I tell you one way you definitely don't stop and it is spinning wheels, blowing everything up and cleaning house every 2 minutes. Equally sticking with a below average Head Coach for years on end isn't the way either (Marvin Lewis anyone?). And that is why I am kind of in a quandry on Marrone. I actually think he is a Ron Rivera type of HC. Average but given a really good team one year could have an outstanding season so I find myself conflicted. He has done some good, but there is enough bad to make me question if he is our guy.

 

But my overriding point in response to your initial post is that what happened before has no bearing on what happens now. We should not even consider what happened under Jauron when deciding on Marrone. Judge him on what he has done and the circumstances in which he has done it and nothing else.

[reddogblitz]

You are right that you can't blame Marrone for the prior failed generation. But how do you fairly judge a HC that doesn't have a credible qb. If he had an average caliber starting qb then I would be more receptive to damning him. But he, and anyone else at the helm, is doomed to fail until a respectable person is taking the snaps.

 

Sorry, I view this as a cop. out and not even accurate. Sure, you gotta have a good QB to win. No arguments there. However, a good coach can do pretty well and have winning and even playoff seasons with average QBing (which I believe we have).

 

Examples include Chip Kelly winning with Sanchez/Foles. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton who is no better than Kyle and maybe even worse. One team even won SB XXV with an average QB who was their backup going into the season ( how can we forget this? ).

 

A better QB would of course help the Bills, but he's what we got and we should have won more than 7 games by now given the talent on this roster (including QB).

[FireChan]

Sorry, I view this as a cop. out and not even accurate. Sure, you gotta have a good QB to win. No arguments there. However, a good coach can do pretty well and have winning and even playoff seasons with average QBing (which I believe we have).

 

Examples include Chip Kelly winning with Sanchez/Foles. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton who is no better than Kyle and maybe even worse. One team even won SB XXV with an average QB who was their backup going into the season ( how can we forget this? ).

 

A better QB would of course help the Bills, but he's what we got and we should have won more than 7 games by now given the talent on this roster (including QB).

 

Eagles are 3-2 with Sancho as the starter....

[RealityCheck]

No matter who coaches this team, the question remains. Who is the QB to lead a playoff run? If he is not currently on the team, then what difference will coaching make?

[reddogblitz]

No matter who coaches this team, the question remains. Who is the QB to lead a playoff run? If he is not currently on the team, then what difference will coaching make?

 

Yeah. Lets fire Marrone and hire Elmer Fudd until such time as a golden armed franchise QB falls in our lap. Doesn't matter does it. Maybe even let Fred be player/coach.

 

Funny how Bruce Arians can win with Drew Stanton and Bill Parcells can win a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostettler.

[C.Biscuit97]

All true, but since Whaley took over not one good QB has come free on the open market (draft or FA). Not one. The simple fact of the matter is that you simply cannot be a consistent winner in the NFL without an above average (at least) QB. The college QBs available last year were terrible, unfortunately, and this past season the Bills weren't going to trade up and take Bortles. The one arguable thing they could have done is take Manziel, who I think has more potential to be good than many others here. We shall see.

 

Haha, Bortles is awful and worse than EJ ever was as a rookie. Does not mean he can't be good (I was never a fan) but you aren't going to get anywhere with a young QB if you give up on the after 14 games.

 

Yeah. Lets fire Marrone and hire Elmer Fudd until such time as a golden armed franchise QB falls in our lap. Doesn't matter does it. Maybe even let Fred be player/coach.

 

Funny how Bruce Arians can win with Drew Stanton and Bill Parcells can win a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostettler.

 

Great points. Chip Kelly is winning with Mark Sanchez. Harbaugh won with Alex Smith who was a giant bust before he got there. Arians helped develop Andrew Luck. EJ got Nate Hackett. That's bad coaching.

[dave mcbride]

Not everyone can be Ryan Grigson and walk into a job with the top pick and have Andrew Luck fall into your lap. I get that the pickings have been slim at QB since 2013, but the Bills have approached the QB position as if they were waiting for their collective ship to come in. Well, I say swim out to it. You keep trying to get the QB until you know you've got one. The Bills have done anything but, going with a guy, seeing that he's not good enough, then trying someone new, and wasting years in the process. A lot of people here say you can't evaluate Marrone until he gets a QB. Well, who's responsible for obtaining that guy? It's Whaley and Marrone, but for the better part of 2 off-seasons and a regular season they felt comfortable with Manuel. He's proven to not be up to the task. That's on the GM and HC.

 

I know surface fans don't like to talk strategic vision for building a team, but Buddy Nix refusing to draft a young guy in 2011-12 is what has given us the situation Buffalo's in now. You can't say there haven't been options since 2013 without recognizing that past mistakes can affect future seasons. This isn't all Whaley's fault, but the approach since 2013 has been very passive and not consistent with how winning teams address the position.

 

 

Oh, I agree. Also, if we're going to locate one event in which to really go after Nix, it's Russell Wilson. The Bills wanted him and presumably thought he'd be there in the 4th round. After all, Nix said repeatedly before and after the 2013 draft that he had learned that if you wanted a qb, you need to draft him around before you have him slotted. He was almost certainly referring to Wilson. Instead, he traded up for TJ Graham in the third and the rest is history.

 

I'm inclined to gamble and try to sign Sam Bradford. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I'm also no expert and it is the case that he was playing reasonably well before getting hurt in the first half of the 2013 season. I'm not too concerned about the knee injury. He's not particularly mobile and ACLs are fairly easy fixes these days anyway.

Edited December 10, 2014 by dave mcbride

[K-9]

Haha, Bortles is awful and worse than EJ ever was as a rookie. Does not mean he can't be good (I was never a fan) but you aren't going to get anywhere with a young QB if you give up on the after 14 games.

 

 

 

Great points. Chip Kelly is winning with Mark Sanchez. Harbaugh won with Alex Smith who was a giant bust before he got there. Arians helped develop Andrew Luck. EJ got Nate Hackett. That's bad coaching.

 

To be fair to EJ, Sanchez, Smith, and Luck were all far more polished and pro ready than Manuel. I don't think Hackett is as clueless as many believe, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[C.Biscuit97]

To be fair to EJ, Sanchez, Smith, and Luck were all far more polished and pro ready than Manuel. I don't think Hackett is as clueless as many believe, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I agree on Luck but you need to refresh your memory on Sanchez and Smith.

 

http://espn.go.com/n...82/mark-sanchez

http://espn.go.com/n...8416/alex-smith

http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

EJ's rookie numbers were better than those 2 across the board. In some categories, EJ was far superior.

 

And I do feel bad crushing coaches. I know they work hard. But if Hackett's dad wasn't a NFL coach, he won't have this position. He was an OC for 2 years for an average offense in an average college conference. And he is supposed to develop a raw 1st round QB by himself? Terrible and almost unforgivable decision by Marrone.

 

Hackett at best should be a running backs coach.

Edited December 10, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[dave mcbride]

Haha, Bortles is awful and worse than EJ ever was as a rookie. Does not mean he can't be good (I was never a fan) but you aren't going to get anywhere with a young QB if you give up on the after 14 games.

 

 

 

Great points. Chip Kelly is winning with Mark Sanchez. Harbaugh won with Alex Smith who was a giant bust before he got there. Arians helped develop Andrew Luck. EJ got Nate Hackett. That's bad coaching.

 

?? - Bortles is a developmental project and I don't know if he's going to be good or not. So much of it depends on his accuracy. I gotta tell you - I haven't come across one outside story or report that says anything other than that Manuel is substandard and a likely bust because of inaccuracy and inadequate field processing. I think the latter can be fixed, but his accuracy at present is terrible. I don't know how that improves. Also, all through camp and preseason we heard how insufficient he was, and it was a consensus. Hell, Geno Smith looks like a lot better thrower to me than Manuel, although Smith has his own set of issues. Maybe it's the case that none of the guys drafted last year are any good??

 

I agree on Luck but you need to refresh your memory on Sanchez and Smith.

 

http://espn.go.com/n...82/mark-sanchez

http://espn.go.com/n...8416/alex-smith

http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel

 

EJ's rookie numbers were better than those 2 across the board. In some categories, EJ was far superior.

 

Do inaccurate throwers become more accurate? Forget about the completion rates for a second. That's the real question. A lot of scouts think not, but I'm not an expert or a fortune teller. Accuracy is the arguably most important attribute of a quarterback, and Manuel is horribly inaccurate. As I said above, Geno Smith is a much more accurate thrower than Manuel thus far. I'm not saying he's good, by the way.

[BillsVet]

You are right that you can't blame Marrone for the prior failed generation. But how do you fairly judge a HC that doesn't have a credible qb. If he had an average caliber starting qb then I would be more receptive to damning him. But he, and anyone else at the helm, is doomed to fail until a respectable person is taking the snaps. The HC has a good defense that is playing up to its talent level. But that positive segment of the roster is squandered because the offense can't function with sub-par qbing.

 

It doesn't matter how innovative you are on the offensive side of the ball of the ball if the person taking the snaps can't play at a reasonable level. That is not the HC's fault. That is a front office miscue. Give the HC creidt for being decisive in benching his overwhelmed young qb. That move salvaged the season. The struggling youngster was replaced by a mediocre vagabound qb who is at best a mediocre backup. That's what the HC has to work with.

 

No replacement of the coaching staff is going to make a greater impact than securing a competent qb. Pegula can hire all the high priced football consultants he wants. He is wasting his money. Any fool (including me) can see that unless that position is dramatically upgraded all the other actions mean nothing.

 

If the Bills are counting on EJ to make a quantum leap next year and lead this franchise into a serious playoff contention they are taking a big gamble. Are there free agent qbs on the market who can at least be a reasonable bridge qb until a long term franchise qb is acquired? Possibly? That is a front office responsibility more than it is a HC responsibility. Until the qb situation is clarified churning the coaching staff over is an act of futility.

 

I hate to look backwards but Buddy Nix set this franchise back by a number of years because he was hideously incompetent. The former owner demonstrated his lack of football common sense when he hired Levy/Brandon/ Nix to run the operation. The outcome he got was the outcome that was preordained with his not only bad but weirdness in staffing judgment.

 

After years of missing the playoffs, the problem with the Bills is bigger than who's HC or playing QB. It's the people making the decisions to hire the HC or how they go about identifying and acquiring a QB. While they've moved Brandon from supervising football ops, they've still got football people who strategically don't get it. These same people didn't plan appropriately at QB from 2010-present and traded future picks for a WR who, while he looks excellent, isn't a 1st and 4th better (at this point) than the other 2014 WR options.

 

The point is their plan to win is extremely flawed. A consultant is necessary to evaluate the people who are OBD lifers or hired by the lifers that acclimate to the culture which has taken hold.

 

And then it's imperative for the consultant to educate the owner (who hasn't been in the NFL long) and provide recommendations for the owner to implement. If that means relieving people who've achieved nothing beyond 8 win seasons, so be it. Because right now I think Terry and Kim are learning, but I don't trust the current people at OBD to suggest making changes. The owner needs independent eyes right now.

[C.Biscuit97]

?? - Bortles is a developmental project and I don't know if he's going to be good or not. So much of it depends on his accuracy. I gotta tell you - I haven't come across one outside story or report that says anything other than that Manuel is substandard and a likely bust because of inaccuracy and inadequate field processing. I think the latter can be fixed, but his accuracy at present is terrible. I don't know how that improves. Also, all through camp and preseason we heard how insufficient he was, and it was a consensus. Hell, Geno Smith looks like a lot better thrower to me than Manuel, although Smith has his own set of issues. Maybe it's the case that none of the guys drafted last year are any good??

 

 

 

Do inaccurate throwers become more accurate? Forget about the completion rates for a second. That's the real question. A lot of scouts think not, but I'm not an expert or a fortune teller. Accuracy is the arguably most important attribute of a quarterback, and Manuel is horribly inaccurate. As I said above, Geno Smith is a much more accurate thrower than Manuel thus far. I'm not saying he's good, by the way.

 

It's tough to evaluate. I never got the Bortles hype. He essentially was a less athletic Manuel. His college stats, height, and weight are basically EJ's. Yet he is a top 3 pick and EJ was a reach? The process does not make sense sometimes. EJ's rookie season was far better than Bortles, who was a slam dunk top 5 pick.

 

Mike Vick had his best passing season in like his 10 year under Andy Reid. Steve Young was very inaccuarte early in his career. I'm not going to pretend EJ is going to be Rodgers (who sat behind a HOFer for 3 years). But he could be a threat for a big play with his arms and legs. I feel like a better offensive coaching staff would have EJ further along.