Global warming err Climate change HOAX

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 4/11/2024 at 10:05 AM, Orlando Tim said:

I should not have called you nuts, that is definitely my mistake. You are one of the  people here who always respond with a well thought out response and I regret posting that. I will blame it on dealing high schoolers all day. To the science part:

 

I hate extrapolation because it always starts from your assumption. You are arguing that the stratosphere and troposphere going in different directions is a historical outlier, but truly we don't know. What was the stratosphere and troposphere doing in the last ice age? We can only guess. When I was in high school in the 1990s I was told the finger lakes were carved by glaciers, but I have been informed by my nephews that is not the belief anymore. 

 

But you and I have one major difference which we will never bridge- I don't trust government to enact meaningful change. Lowering pollution is a good thing but not at the cost of stopping our economy. Politicians main goal is to get re elected, and that is why California is a mess despite being an "environmental" state.

 

But we’re doing so much more than mere guessing! The theme of these climate science discussions should be “data confluence.” The confluence of data is what gives us our confidence in the consensus science. With respect to the stratosphere topic, we have all of the following support:

 

1. Predictive theories based on very well-established physics subfields (mostly stat mech and a/m/o physics, mixed in with some fluid mech at the troposphere below, plasma physics at the ionosphere above, and a delightful dash of basic quantum mech throughout).

2. Computational models whose guiding equations are based on the aforementioned theories.

3. Tabletop experiments of the atmosphere layers, analogous in spirit to what aeronautical engineers do with scale modeling in wind tunnels.

4. Direct measurements taken from air balloons and satellites over the past century, which NACA and later NASA recorded.

 

I’ll argue that the structural simplicity of the stratosphere is what further increases our confidence. At steady-state conditions, it’s basically an altitude-dependent thermodynamic system of temperature, pressure, and gaseous composition (nitrogen, oxygen/ozone, and a few trace gases). There’s very little water vapor, carbon dioxide, or air turbulence to complicate things. You have typical transient behavior and diffusion at boundary layers, but nothing that can individually explain a global temperature variation trend sustained on the order of several decades!

 

So there’s nothing wrong with extrapolation when your assumptions are so strong. Historical behavioral extrapolation comes down to two basic cases, each unassailable without some sort of paradigm-shifting explanation from physics or atmospheric science:

 

1. Uniform temperature growth in each atmospheric layer, due to solar activity.

2. Inverse temperature growth, divergent at the stratosphere-troposphere boundary, due to major volcanic emissions or life-induced (i.e. plants, microbes, humans) changes to atmospheric composition that, in turn, alter the greenhouse effect.

 

P.S. Your apology is kindly accepted, though it wasn’t necessary to offer one! The prerequisite for PPP subforum participation should be a thick skin. All of us here have failed the mantra of “attack the message, not the messenger” from time to time. It happens often enough that the subforum moderator** has given up moderating personal attacks.

 

P.S.P.S. The Finger Lakes were likely ancient river valleys. Glaciers from the most recent ice age likely carved them further into their current form.

 

(P.S.) x 3: I trust government and politicians about as much as I do private corporations. Trust is earned with proof over time, buttressed with systems of oversight and power checks/balances.

 

** - His moderating presence, in fact, is so light that some have suggested he’s not even technically a moderator!! << Commie Kay shockface emoji >> But um…I’ve already said too much, lest I be banished to an even lower Dante-esque forum circle of heck than PPP, with nothing but a red stapler in hand.

 

EDIT: Additional notes on extrapolation case #2: “Major volcanic emissions” was more a reference to Earth’s volatile early atmospheric history, not to random individual volcano eruptions. Effects from isolated cases of meteorites and major wildfires can be similarly transient. Certain human-generated industrial air pollutants can actually mitigate the stratosphere cooling effect from greenhouse gases.

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:15 AM by ComradeKayAdams

[4th&long]

10 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

One of the first album purchases I ever made, sadly not long after the plane crash.   @muppy saw them at Rich Stadium, as did a good friend of mine.  I was a late to the table so I missed it. 
 

Good for you for doing what you can.  If I think long and hard enough on meat consumption, there are days when I think I could go vegetarian…then I eat some good wings.  Or a BLT.  Or whatever.  
 

So, on your issue with electric vehicles, assume you’re correct and the policy issue is indeed a scam.  Extrapolate a bit—-and I see @All_Pro_Bills has done a much better job than I can highlighting his thoughts above—-and consider other policy initiatives and you begin to understand that how you get to be declared a climate heretic when you question the narrative. 
 

Welcome to the club. 
 

 

 

I’m the same way with wings or meat lovers pizza. But I am trying to get away from meat more because I’m worried about what they are putting in it. Whatever they are putting in it to make them grow is making me grow! I gained weight installing flooring and going to the gym. It can’t be all age can it?🥴

[Pokebball]

10 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

One of the first album purchases I ever made, sadly not long after the plane crash.   @muppy saw them at Rich Stadium, as did a good friend of mine.  I was a late to the table so I missed it. 
 

 

 

Saw 'em three times. They, The Allman Bros and Marshall Tucker. Dang good musicians!

 

Edited Friday at 11:36 PM by Pokebball

[BillsFanNC]

When is the world going to end again AOC?

 

 

[B-Man]

 

These two stories were published on the same day a few weeks ago.

 

https://notthebee.com/article/cbs-news-and-nbc-news-published-these-two-stories-on-the-same-day-a-few-weeks-ago

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[B-Man]

 

 

                                        

 

 

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