What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Im all for the 1A... but Vox is as good as a source for information as the National Enquirer. Would be like me quoting the NRA about guns facts. 
 

You’d call BS. 

Vox is really good. You are totally wrong 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

So can you sue knife makers? There only purpose is to cut and people are using it outside the preferred usage?

Sure, let people have freedom to sue knife makers. Yes, if they want to 

[SoCal Deek]

Just more stupid legislation created by stupid legislators. Gun makers will just put a sign on the gun stating it is not supposed to be used to massacre humans….done. End of liability.

[ALF]

GOP Rep. Chris Jacobs announces retirement amid backlash over gun control support after 1 term

Republican Rep. Chris Jacobs has announced his retirement amid backlash he received for supporting a Democratic-led effort in Congress to pass controversial gun control measures.

 

Jacobs, who represents New York's 27th congressional district, announced he would no longer be seeking re-election after he threw his support behind efforts in Congress to ban assault weapons on the federal level.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-rep-chris-jacobs-announces-retirement-gun-control

 

This is my district the most republican in NYS. His uncle owns Delaware North and the Bruins. He came out for banning new sales of AR15 after Tops killing. All republican leaders jumped on him hard after that. 

[Boatdrinks]

40 minutes ago, ALF said:

GOP Rep. Chris Jacobs announces retirement amid backlash over gun control support after 1 term

Republican Rep. Chris Jacobs has announced his retirement amid backlash he received for supporting a Democratic-led effort in Congress to pass controversial gun control measures.

 

Jacobs, who represents New York's 27th congressional district, announced he would no longer be seeking re-election after he threw his support behind efforts in Congress to ban assault weapons on the federal level.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-rep-chris-jacobs-announces-retirement-gun-control

 

This is my district the most republican in NYS. His uncle owns Delaware North and the Bruins. He came out for banning new sales of AR15 after Tops killing. All republican leaders jumped on him hard after that. 

So he couldn’t stand the heat after supporting bad policy. It’s just as well that he drops out as he would lose anyway. 

[Orlando Tim]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Vox is really good. You are totally wrong 

 

 

Sure, let people have freedom to sue knife makers. Yes, if they want to 

The Hawaii numbers, while true, are not the important number to me. Murder rates matter much more to me, if someone commits suicide the method is immaterial to me. We have to separate the issues, how to stop murders and how to stop people from committing suicide, which are generally very different reasons. Both are worth effort but solving one will not do much to the other.

[ChiGoose]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

if someone commits suicide the method is immaterial to me.

It is incredibly material if suicide is attempted with a firearm because firearms are far more lethal than other methods. 
 

People who survive an attempt generally do not die of suicide. Most of the common methods of suicide (pills, cutting, etc.) are far more likely to fail than succeed. Suicide attempts with firearms are almost always successful (~90%). So that means that the method of a suicide attempt has a strong impact on the likelihood someone will die. 
 

While the common trope is that people who commit suicide are suffering from prolonged depression, suicide attempts generally occur in a brief moment of crisis. They snap and then make the attempt. If they have access to a gun, they most likely will die. If not, there is a very good chance they won’t. 
 

Since suicides are roughly half of gun deaths, we definitely should consider them as part of any approach to reduction in gun violence. 

[T master]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:17 PM, ChiGoose said:

 

...because that's not the main cause for gun violence?

 

Your possibly right but it's not the guns fault as i said i have had a lot of guns and the only time they have ever went off is because i pull the trigger when i point the gun with the full intention of shooting something .

 

The cause of these type of crimes are the person & only that person because of evil or very confused thoughts that they possess that are looking to do exactly what they wind up doing !

 

So use some common sense in keeping those types from getting guns don't just put out a blanket law on put blame all on the gun because it will not & can not do any harm all by it self only in the hands of people with bad intentions .

[Doc Brown]

19 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Yes! 

 

 

This is so dumb.  That's like holding a rope manufacturer accountable for someone hanging themselves.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

20 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Yes! 

 

 

50 years as one of the most powerful men in the county. 8 in place as one of most powerful people in the world.  1.5 as THE most powerful person in the world. 
 

What’s outrageous is how little he’s accomplished.  Sure, screaming about someone being sued is grist for the mill, and he is a lawyer, but this is just an old man yelling out the window.  

[ChiGoose]

47 minutes ago, T master said:

 

don't just put out a blanket law on put blame all on the gun because it will not & can not do any harm all by it self only in the hands of people with bad intentions .

Where have I advocated for that?

 

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

This is so dumb.  That's like holding a rope manufacturer accountable for someone hanging themselves.

It's also not true. The vaccine manufacturers are protected by the US government. They aren't liable for damages from their products in the United States.

 

For all vaccines besides Covax, the VICP covers damages brought forward by plaintiffs.  For covax, the manufacturers remain free of any and all liability.

[SoCal Deek]

There’s ZERO chance this sort of liability would EVER hold up in court. 

[GaryPinC]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:15 AM, ChiGoose said:

 

I don't think there is a panacea, nor do I think you can prevent all gun violence. But generally, I would start by treating firearms like we do cars. We used to have far more automobile deaths in this country, but with stricter controls on how people can be licensed to drive and regulations around vehicle safety, we have dramatically reduced the number of people being killed by cars.

 

Red flag laws are a good place to start, too. If someone presents a threat to the community, there should be a process from temporarily removing their firearms.

 

We also should repeal PLCAA, which prevents gun manufacturers from being sued. If you remember the Ford Pinto, it had a design flaw that resulted in a higher risk of fire in a rear-end collision. Through lawsuits and public advocacy, the issue was identified and Ford issued a recall. Since gun manufacturers are immune to lawsuits due to PLCAA, they are less inclined to have a focus on safety in their designs. Colt was in the process of creating the iColt handgun in the 1990's, which was a smart gun that could only be fired by its owner. This plan was scrapped and the gun was never rolled out. Manufacturers would have an incentive to explore safer approaches to firearms if they could be liable for excessively lethal weapons.

 

I think we should also have safe gun storage laws to prevent kids or other people from getting an otherwise legally obtained gun. Gun safes with the ammunition stored separately would be a good approach, especially in houses where minors live.

 

I am skeptical of outright bans of guns, like the AR-15. "Assault Weapon" is a political term that is often defined around a gun's cosmetic features than its lethality. If there is a case to be made to ban certain types of firearms because they are so high power as to not have a real justifiable civilian use, I'm open to hearing it. But I don't think we should ban guns because they look scary or are popular.

 

Something we need to do but I have no idea how to do is to change the culture around guns. It was not that long ago that guns, especially rifles, were more considered tools than anything else. Going to a range to safely use your firearm, having a gun in a rural area to protect from certain wildlife, etc. I took some NRA classes way back when and the number one thing was safety and respect for the deadly weapon in your hands. Today, it's all about 2A and tyranny and the ads for guns invoke images of violence and being manly. I think that changes the way some people look at guns and it's not good.

You've got some good common sense things here, but I think you're missing a big way to help with keeping guns out of the wrong hands.  And it gets back to what you said about firearms/cars.

 

I feel like you're not quite on the right track with this, but close.  Full disclosure, now in my 50s, I've owned guns since my teenage years and fervently believe guns enable us the power to overthrow our government if enough of us so choose.  It will never happen, but I consider a critical part of being an American.

 

Anyways, for me the key is responsibility.  There is little to no owner-responsibility to owning a gun.  That is what is most insane.  Red-flag and personal liability for securing your guns are great starts.

 

There needs to be safety certification processes/cards that are divorced from buying a gun.  Classes/certifications for:  shotguns/rifles, handguns (concealed carry included), semi-automatic assault-style rifle, cannons, etc.   Thorough background checks/personality assessments are included though still instant-check at time of purchase.

 

Make people recertify, once a year for the assault rifles.  Don't stop people from buying guns.  Make them show the proper training card then they can quickly buy.  

 

How many of these mass shooters are even going to be responsible enough to take the classes and see it through?  IMO, not many.  And hopefully they can be identified during certification.

 

Getting back to your automobile example, instead of looking at the inanimate object, let's focus on the driver.  What if you didn't have to take any classes/tests and didn't even need a driver's license?   That's pretty much how it is with gun owners.

[T master]

6 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Where have I advocated for that?

 

 

I didn't say you did i was talking about what i feel i've heard from the mouths of certain politicians to this point and usually the first thing they do is put the blame on the gun and not a lot of focus on other factors that could contribute  .

 

They do the same thing with global warming it's just fossil fuels there are no other factors in the equation nope has nothing to do with cutting down hundreds of thousands of acres of tree's to  build apartment complexes & houses !

 

Or those roofs & roads that they have to build to support the new housing & the retail businesses that usually follow that all retain heat longer or methane from animals but nope it just & only the fact that can be fossil fuels that is causing the entire problem .

 

The same from the same politicians - focus on the guns .

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

No agenda here.  Typical gang violence being reported as a mass shooting.  Don't worry, though.  When they ban guns, gang members will be right in line to turn in their weapons.

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Mass shooting every few hours now. 

 

Chattanooga https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-14-shot-mass-shooting-chattanooga-tennessee/story?id=85196630

 

Phillu    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/14-shot-3-dead-in-mass-shooting-on-south-street/3261464/

 

South Carolina https://www.npr.org/2022/06/05/1103141264/mass-shooting-philadelphia-chattanooga-south-carolina

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/05/mass-shootings-weekend-killed 

 

A shooting at a strip mall in Phoenix left one person dead and eight others injured, AP reported.

Police confirmed during a press conference that about 100 people were at a party at the strip mall about 1am when an altercation led to the shooting, CBS News reported.

The victim, a 14-year-old girl, died of her injuries in the hospital while two more women shot at the scene have life-threatening injuries, per AP.

Five teenagers were shot and hospitalized after gunfire broke out at a West Texas high school graduation party at 1am Saturday, AP reported.

As many as 100 people were at the party when a fight broke out, leading to the shooting. Two of the teens are in critical condition, per AP.

A shooting in Macon, Georgia, shortly before 7pm on Saturday left one dead and three others injured, according to a press release from the Bibb County Sheriff's Office.

A shooting outside a bar in Mesa, Arizona, early Sunday killed two people and left two others injured, an Arizona ABC affiliate reported.

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Mass shooting every few hours now. 

 

Chattanooga https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-14-shot-mass-shooting-chattanooga-tennessee/story?id=85196630

 

Phillu    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/14-shot-3-dead-in-mass-shooting-on-south-street/3261464/

 

South Carolina https://www.npr.org/2022/06/05/1103141264/mass-shooting-philadelphia-chattanooga-south-carolina

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/05/mass-shootings-weekend-killed 

 

A shooting at a strip mall in Phoenix left one person dead and eight others injured, AP reported.

Police confirmed during a press conference that about 100 people were at a party at the strip mall about 1am when an altercation led to the shooting, CBS News reported.

The victim, a 14-year-old girl, died of her injuries in the hospital while two more women shot at the scene have life-threatening injuries, per AP.

Five teenagers were shot and hospitalized after gunfire broke out at a West Texas high school graduation party at 1am Saturday, AP reported.

As many as 100 people were at the party when a fight broke out, leading to the shooting. Two of the teens are in critical condition, per AP.

A shooting in Macon, Georgia, shortly before 7pm on Saturday left one dead and three others injured, according to a press release from the Bibb County Sheriff's Office.

A shooting outside a bar in Mesa, Arizona, early Sunday killed two people and left two others injured, an Arizona ABC affiliate reported.

These are ALL gang shootings. All of them. They don’t care about gun laws or lives. 
 

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Mass shooting every few hours now. 

 

Chattanooga https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-14-shot-mass-shooting-chattanooga-tennessee/story?id=85196630

 

Phillu    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/14-shot-3-dead-in-mass-shooting-on-south-street/3261464/

 

South Carolina https://www.npr.org/2022/06/05/1103141264/mass-shooting-philadelphia-chattanooga-south-carolina

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/05/mass-shootings-weekend-killed 

 

A shooting at a strip mall in Phoenix left one person dead and eight others injured, AP reported.

Police confirmed during a press conference that about 100 people were at a party at the strip mall about 1am when an altercation led to the shooting, CBS News reported.

The victim, a 14-year-old girl, died of her injuries in the hospital while two more women shot at the scene have life-threatening injuries, per AP.

Five teenagers were shot and hospitalized after gunfire broke out at a West Texas high school graduation party at 1am Saturday, AP reported.

As many as 100 people were at the party when a fight broke out, leading to the shooting. Two of the teens are in critical condition, per AP.

A shooting in Macon, Georgia, shortly before 7pm on Saturday left one dead and three others injured, according to a press release from the Bibb County Sheriff's Office.

A shooting outside a bar in Mesa, Arizona, early Sunday killed two people and left two others injured, an Arizona ABC affiliate reported.

How many of these would not have happened if we changed gun laws? Nigeria apparently had a massacre today at a church in a country with almost no legal gun ownership.https://www.yahoo.com/news/official-dozens-feared-dead-nigeria-135922075.html

[ALF]

Good article

 

Opinion: Here's the reason people tell me they want to buy an AR-15. And it's simply ludicrous
Opinion by Michael Fanone

 

Some members of the tinfoil hat brigade have come up with the reply, "We need these weapons because we want to be effective against the government if it becomes tyrannical. That's part of our Second Amendment right." Personally, I think that's ludicrous, but it has become an increasingly popular justification for purchasing a semi-automatic rifle.

What side would the US military be on ?

 

The bullet fired by the AR-15 is capable of defeating the average police officer's body armor, like a knife slicing through butter. SWAT teams and some of the more specialized units typically are equipped with level IV Kevlar or steel-plated armor, which would stop maybe two or three direct hits, but eventually body armor breaks down after being hit with multiple rounds.

 

A person wielding an AR-15 has a range beyond 300 yards. For an officer armed with a 9 mm pistol, hitting a target beyond 50 yards is going to be difficult, even for the most accomplished marksman.

 

The bullet that comes out of the barrel of an AR-15 style semi-automatic rifle can easily penetrate the target -- the intruder or whatever person you are using deadly force to defend yourself or others from.

 

But it also will go through the wall behind that person, and potentially through that room and into the next wall. That power and accuracy are useful for military purposes, which is obviously what they were designed for. But it's far more power than should ever be in the hands of the average civilian.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/opinions/guns-ar-15-uvalde-school-shooting-fanone/index.html

[Tiberius]

On 6/4/2022 at 2:22 PM, Doc Brown said:

This is so dumb.  That's like holding a rope manufacturer accountable for someone hanging themselves.

If you make a totally reckless product you should be liable 

11 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

These are ALL gang shootings. All of them. They don’t care about gun laws or lives. 
 

All those innocent bystanders killed and wounded, but who cares, it was supposidly "gang" violence, so who cares? 

10 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

How many of these would not have happened if we changed gun laws? Nigeria apparently had a massacre today at a church in a country with almost no legal gun ownership.https://www.yahoo.com/news/official-dozens-feared-dead-nigeria-135922075.html

Easy access to guns mean more gin deaths