What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It is difficult to get any legislation passed on major issues, such as gun violence, violence in general, immigration, etc. Polling data suggests the majority of people in this country are open to reasonable approaches. Unfortunately, IMO, social media has created majorities where they don't actually exist. The extreme views tend to be the loudest and most persistent, and they dominate social media (and much of main stream media as well), intimidate reasonable people, and, unfortunately, shape far too much of national party platforms. Democrats block any Republican initiatives because they "don't go far enough," and Republicans block any Democrat initiatives because they "go too far."

 

In the end, nothing ever gets done. Polarization at the national level only serves to worsen existing problems.  Again, JMO

This was reposted to me by teachers in public schools. 2 ex principals in fact. #Roxanne Corona Edmunds

 

 

QUOTE" As educators, we have done our part.

We have fenced in school playgrounds and locked all doors except one single point of entry. We have added a a double entry to the front door and added bulletproof glass. We have led our students through active shooter drills and watched the scared looks in our student’s eyes as they cowered in the darkened classroom. Research tells us that drills are not good for students emotional well-being, but we want to keep them safe. We have added door stops to classroom doors and covered any classroom door windows. We have partnered with law enforcement to add metal detectors and school safety support officers. Teachers and administrators have completed hours of active shooter trainings and collaborated with county and state law enforcement officers to hold active shooter simulations. Every teacher continues to place her life on the line for her students with the understanding that she may be the next teacher who dies protecting her students.

We have done our part.

Now, it’s time for our legislative representatives to do theirs.

1. Ban military-style assault weapons.

2. Require universal background checks for all gun sales.

3. Close gun sale loopholes and require background checks on all commercial gun sales.

4. Remove the prohibition on gun violence research by the CDC.

5. Ban bump stocks and limit the size of ammunition clips.

6. Pass an Extreme Risk Protection Order Act, a “red flag” bill, to allow relatives and law enforcement to temporarily remove firearms from an individual in crisis -END QUOTE

 

what do you think?

[muppy]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It is difficult to get any legislation passed on major issues, such as gun violence, violence in general, immigration, etc. Polling data suggests the majority of people in this country are open to reasonable approaches. Unfortunately, IMO, social media has created majorities where they don't actually exist. The extreme views tend to be the loudest and most persistent, and they dominate social media (and much of main stream media as well), intimidate reasonable people, and, unfortunately, shape far too much of national party platforms. Democrats block any Republican initiatives because they "don't go far enough," and Republicans block any Democrat initiatives because they "go too far."

 

In the end, nothing ever gets done. Polarization at the national level only serves to worsen existing problems.  Again, JMO

one last thought for you from your post. It is the Reasonable voices in NUMBERS that will make a change aka VOTING. I really think so. And I think this issue at this moment in time is (I really hope) the tipping point. Where folks like yourself and I who dont ususally write in political chatrooms are speaking up ...wherein before you are 100% correct..the loudest voice DOES seem to carry the most weight.  If the Voices of disgust and change aren't acknowledged by our Votes that you as an individual have done Nothing but blow hot air into the universe. It needs to be Loud and Clear actionable possible for most every person in our country. 

 

Having said that the divisiveness of this issue is clear. What is also clear to me anyway is that a change needs to be a win win scenario (each side thinking they won) or it will never work. The trialism in politics is a HUGE stumbling block.

 

your opinion matters. Thanks for posting. m

[billsfan1959]

35 minutes ago, muppy said:

This was reposted to me by teachers in public schools. 2 ex principals in fact. #Roxanne Corona Edmunds

 

 

QUOTE" As educators, we have done our part.

We have fenced in school playgrounds and locked all doors except one single point of entry. We have added a a double entry to the front door and added bulletproof glass. We have led our students through active shooter drills and watched the scared looks in our student’s eyes as they cowered in the darkened classroom. Research tells us that drills are not good for students emotional well-being, but we want to keep them safe. We have added door stops to classroom doors and covered any classroom door windows. We have partnered with law enforcement to add metal detectors and school safety support officers. Teachers and administrators have completed hours of active shooter trainings and collaborated with county and state law enforcement officers to hold active shooter simulations. Every teacher continues to place her life on the line for her students with the understanding that she may be the next teacher who dies protecting her students.

We have done our part.

Now, it’s time for our legislative representatives to do theirs.

1. Ban military-style assault weapons.

2. Require universal background checks for all gun sales.

3. Close gun sale loopholes and require background checks on all commercial gun sales.

4. Remove the prohibition on gun violence research by the CDC.

5. Ban bump stocks and limit the size of ammunition clips.

6. Pass an Extreme Risk Protection Order Act, a “red flag” bill, to allow relatives and law enforcement to temporarily remove firearms from an individual in crisis -END QUOTE

 

what do you think?

 

1. I am not sure about a complete ban on semiautomatic "assault style" rifles (such as the AR-15 style rifle used in Uvalde); however, I am absolutely in favor of restricting accessibility and increasing requirements for ownership. As a start.

2-3. I am in favor of increasing requirements and eliminating loopholes for the sale of any firearms (as well nationally uniform requirements). I am also in favor of increasing whatever resources are necessary to help those tasked with enforcing the laws that are in place now. Remember, between 80-90 percent of crimes involving guns are comitted with guns that are not legally owned. If we want to truly address this problem, let's start with the people who are actually using guns in criminal activity.

4. I am a research guy and in favor of as much legitimate research on gun violence and violence in general as we can do. However, I don't want the CDC anywhere near it. I would prefer the creation of a more extensive research arm of the DOJ. They already have access to all of the national data on all aspects of crime and can work with researchers from universities around the country.

5. No problem with it.

6. We need an overhaul with how we deal with people who are mentally ill or exist in that gray area between legally sane and clearly exhibiting distorted cognitive functioning. There are a lot of individuals who exhibit behavior putting them on a trajectory for violence and don't actually do anything for which law enforcement or the medical profession can take real action. We need to figure out a better balance between individual rights and the right of peole to be safe.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by billsfan1959

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

So they won’t be prosecuted here in CA for home invasions?  🙄

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailynews.com/2021/12/20/juveniles-can-avoid-jail-for-robbery-burglary-arson-under-new-policies-by-da-gascon/amp/

 

This is the kind of thing I was referencing, but I did simplify too much. If you are breaking into someone's house you deserve a real punishment.

[BillStime]

🎯

 

“Doing nothing makes it easier for children to get slaughtered.”

 

 

[muppy]

Walter Nirenberg

 

Uvalde: AR-15

Buffalo: AR-15

Boulder: AR-15

Orlando: AR-15

Parkland: AR-15

Las Vegas: AR-15

Aurora, CO: AR-15

Sandy Hook: AR-15

Waffle House: AR-15

San Bernardino: AR-15

Midland/Odessa: AR-15

Poway Synagogue: AR-15

Sutherland Springs: AR-15

Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

It's the guns.

 

 

[BillStime]

Only in America 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

34 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Only in America 

 

 

Yup, a fetishization of guns and violence has infected this country like a plague, and fascist narratives tying gun ownership to a defense of culture, property and liberty have only made the disease worse.  It’s truly a cultural sickness.

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

Walter Nirenberg

 

Uvalde: AR-15

Buffalo: AR-15

Boulder: AR-15

Orlando: AR-15

Parkland: AR-15

Las Vegas: AR-15

Aurora, CO: AR-15

Sandy Hook: AR-15

Waffle House: AR-15

San Bernardino: AR-15

Midland/Odessa: AR-15

Poway Synagogue: AR-15

Sutherland Springs: AR-15

Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

It's the guns.

 

 

 

so what would you personally like to ban. ar-15s?  how do you define a assault weopon? im not trying to be argumentative and not even sure if i agree because this post is like soo many others. very ambiguous. 

 

reading on the clintons ban in the washington post alot of info seems to be highly disputed. none of this is as simple as a tweet indicates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/08/bill-clintons-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-led-big-drop-mass-shooting-deaths/

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Buffarukus

[billsfan_34]

Better more robust background checks keeping them out of the hands of folks with paychosis/psychotic disorders/illness.

15 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Yup, a fetishization of guns and violence has infected this country like a plague, and fascist narratives tying gun ownership to a defense of culture, property and liberty have only made the disease worse.  It’s truly a cultural sickness.

“It” also stops people from invading us. I am pro gun but im also pro intensive background checks.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

“It” also stops people from invading us. I am pro gun but im also pro intensive background checks.

Not in 2022, total myth.  There are no zombie hordes amassed at the gates.  There are no malevolent foreign powers discussing whether the per-household gun statistics are dropping enough to make an invasion effective.  

[Orlando Tim]

14 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not in 2022, total myth.  There are no zombie hordes amassed at the gates.  There are no malevolent foreign powers discussing whether the per-household gun statistics are dropping enough to make an invasion effective.  

How about in 1942? How about in 1980? Just because at this moment the rest of the world is busy does not mean that 10-15 years from now it can't change. Also the Swiss have never been invaded at least partially due to the gun culture there. 

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Buffarukus said:

 

so what would you personally like to ban. ar-15s?  how do you define a assault weopon? im not trying to be argumentative and not even sure if i agree because this post is like soo many others. very ambiguous. 

 

reading on the clintons ban in the washington post alot of info seems to be highly disputed. none of this is as simple as a tweet indicates.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/08/bill-clintons-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-led-big-drop-mass-shooting-deaths/

 

I absolutely Agree that not everything you read is true/truth. B ut it is clearly indicative of trains of thought at work within our country. This is a Hot Button issue. Rational thoughtful people on both sides are often short shrifted.  What I mean by that is I think Our more moderate rational voices are unheard above the NRA's din.  I am by no means an expert on Guns. I fear the power they can unleash on the innocent and the perp you need defending from equally. I'd as likely shoot myself as another person due to sheer incompetence as a gun owner. potentially my own.  I own it*

 

in any case I post here to spur discussion not as any expert.  My position does fall on the less of the assault weapons equals a safer USA I think Yes.

I really am not saying my opinion is more valid than a gun owners.   The allure of these weapons has wrought destruction in our country. To limit their availibility I think is logical.  *shrugs* Make their violence harder to obtain, even the ammo. BRILLIANT........who is listening???

 

Id even go along with other rational thoughtful practical ideas  as a measure of whats best for the public good. But  even that noone can fully agree what that means. It's FRUSTRATING

 

hope that answered your question its my best reply. m

 

 

[B-Man]

 

We overlook a significant factor in mass shootings: fatherlessness.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/we-overlook-a-significant-factor-in-mass-shootings-fatherlessness/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=android_nyp

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Absolute Worst Second Amendment Take in Existence Goes Forth

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/05/29/the-absolute-worst-second-amendment-take-in-existence-goes-forth-n571849

 

 

 

 

 

 

Focusing on Cultural Pathologies That Lead to Mass Shootings Reveals Difficult Truths…

So Instead, We Talk About Guns.

 

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/white-focusing-on-cultural-pathologies-that-lead-to-mass-shootings-reveals-difficult-truths-so-instead-we-talk-about-guns/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by B-Man

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

We overlook a significant factor in mass shootings: fatherlessness.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/we-overlook-a-significant-factor-in-mass-shootings-fatherlessness/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=android_nyp

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Absolute Worst Second Amendment Take in Existence Goes Forth

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/05/29/the-absolute-worst-second-amendment-take-in-existence-goes-forth-n571849

 

 

 

 

 

 

Focusing on Cultural Pathologies That Lead to Mass Shootings Reveals Difficult Truths…

So Instead, We Talk About Guns.

 

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/white-focusing-on-cultural-pathologies-that-lead-to-mass-shootings-reveals-difficult-truths-so-instead-we-talk-about-guns/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh rilllllly, B’more Russian Bot? So maybe we should permit contraceptive practices and penal reform measures which would reduce fatherless households?  Nah that would be too intellectually consistent for the nutjob right.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Coach Tuesday

[ALF]

Voters elect politicians who vote a certain way on this and other issues. I would like to see a National referendum for major issues on election day although that's not how our system of government works. Polls can be manipulated .  

[Warcodered]

53 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

How about in 1942? How about in 1980? Just because at this moment the rest of the world is busy does not mean that 10-15 years from now it can't change. Also the Swiss have never been invaded at least partially due to the gun culture there. 

The Swiss have gun regulations.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

THEY WANT ALL YOUR GUNS

 

 

 

Canada’s Trudeau announces plan for national freeze on handguns

 

May 30 (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Monday his government was introducing new legislation to implement a "national freeze" on handgun ownership and prevent people from buying and selling handguns anywhere in the country.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-trudeau-announces-legislation-prevent-buying-selling-handguns-2022-05-30/

 

 

 

Don't get deflected into some b.s. "you don't need that gun to hunt" argument.

 

They want all of them.  

 

The free world folks.  Looks like Nazi Germany.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Oh rilllllly, B’more Russian Bot? So maybe we should permit contraceptive practices and penal reform measures which would reduce fatherless households?  Nah that would be too intellectually consistent for the nutjob right.

Oh brother! You believe penal reform is the answer to keeping fathers in the home. How about theses ‘fathers’ act like real fathers and not break the law? How about that? 

[Big Blitz]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No one here is advocating a handgun ban, and nothing in that fascist’s articles says that an assault rifle was the only weapon that would’ve been effective in those alleged property-defense scenarios.

 

And frankly, YOU are the scumbag who pollutes this side of the board with lies and the sports side of the board with terrible football takes.  It’s not just your family on Thanksgiving - we, too, think you’re THAT GUY.

 

”All gun control advocates are liberal idiots.”

 

”I need anti-tank weapons and claymore mines to defend my property from the liberal zombie hordes.”

 

”The election was stolen by a deep-state pedophile conspiracy.  Let’s arm up so it doesn’t happen again.”

 

YOU are the scum. The liar.  The spreader of sickness.

 

 

Bumped

 

 

Call out Canada then.