d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ellis, on the other hand, appears certain to get a long-term deal sometime after Pennington gets his. Ellis' deal is expected to be similar to the six-year contract recently signed by the Bears' Adewale Ogunleye: $20 million over the next three years, including $15 million in bonuses. http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jet...ny-sports-print funny how the jets recognize young talent and lock it up, but bills fans don't expect donahoe to do the same thing and would rather watch our only legit pass rusher walk out the door..... every time one of these DE's signs another deal schobel's price just keeps getting higher and higher......TD has already wasted a ton of time on this already, and cost the bills dollars in the mean time if he does choose to resign him.....i just don't get it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 If Schobel plays this year as good as Ellis and Ogunleye did last year, he will be worth similar $$$. Right now, IMO he's not there yet. TD's doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 DE have been getting WAY to much money the past few years. with 11.5 sacks, shobel probuby wants alot. and with all our injuries, we need the money to sign some backups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 According to a recent post here, the Bills are 1 million under the cap. If these figures are accurate, not only are we not extending a deal for either Schobel, Jennings or Williams, we won't be doing a whole lot of anything. That money will be needed for in-season moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 According to a recent post here, the Bills are 1 million under the cap. If these figures are accurate, not only are we not extending a deal for either Schobel, Jennings or Williams, we won't be doing a whole lot of anything. That money will be needed for in-season moves. 11550[/snapback] Sorry...forgot to login. This was me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Who would you rather have, Schoebel or Jennings. That's likely the choice this offseason. TD is being prudent. Personally, I think Schoebel is solid but not exceptional. That's a lot of money for a "solid" DE. Teams actually have to gameplan around Ogunleye and Ellis. I doubt anyone is game planning around Schoebel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Who would you rather have, Schoebel or Jennings. That's likely the choice this offseason. TD is being prudent. Personally, I think Schoebel is solid but not exceptional. That's a lot of money for a "solid" DE. Teams actually have to gameplan around Ogunleye and Ellis. I doubt anyone is game planning around Schoebel. 11573[/snapback] I would prefer Jennings, but throwing a lot of money at him scares me because of his injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Isn't the knock against him, that he's not very good on containment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 If Schobel plays this year as good as Ellis and Ogunleye did last year,he will be worth similar $$$. Right now, IMO he's not there yet. TD's doing the right thing. 11544[/snapback] schobel's 3 year production: 6.5 - year 1 8.5 - year 2 11.5 - year 3 ellis' 4 year production: 8.5 - year 1 5.0 - year 2 4.0 - year 3 12.5 - year 4 schobel was every bit as good as ellis last year, and has had a better career to date then ellis has had.......i don't know why bills fans refuse to recognize the guy is a good young player who is on the rise..... you guys keep saying wait, wait, wait.......well, by the time schobel puts up the kind of year you guys think he should, he'll have priced himself out of our range and we'll stand no chance of keeping the guy....the closer he gets to free agency, the more attrative that becomes to him.......in the NFL, you need to be ahead of the game.......by sitting back, the bills are blowing their chance...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Who would you rather have, Schoebel or Jennings. That's likely the choice this offseason. TD is being prudent. the bills have the choice?? hardly.....schobel and jennings have the choice, and the longer we wait before signing them, the more appealing free agency will be for them....... if you plan on signing one of the two, why not do it now when it will be CHEAPER??? waiting until later just drives up the price.....and at that point, the bills will be lucky to retain either...... sitting back and waiting gets you no where in this league..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 schobel's 3 year production: 6.5 - year 1 8.5 - year 2 11.5 - year 3 ellis' 4 year production: 8.5 - year 1 5.0 - year 2 4.0 - year 3 12.5 - year 4 schobel was every bit as good as ellis last year, and has had a better career to date then ellis has had 11599[/snapback] I disagree. Ellis is far superior to Schobel at stopping the run. Pass rush wise, they're about a draw. Last year Schobel got a lot of sacks at garbage time, while Ellis got a lot of sacks against Mike Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckner's Glove Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 the bills have the choice?? hardly.....schobel and jennings have the choice, and the longer we wait before signing them, the more appealing free agency will be for them....... if you plan on signing one of the two, why not do it now when it will be CHEAPER??? waiting until later just drives up the price.....and at that point, the bills will be lucky to retain either...... sitting back and waiting gets you no where in this league..... 11606[/snapback] What makes you think either of these players wants to sign now? Wouldn't you wait for the big pay day at the end of the season if you were in their position? If I recall correctly, TD tried to work deals for both of these guys in the offseason and neither wanted to extend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 schobel's 3 year production: 6.5 - year 1 8.5 - year 2 11.5 - year 3 ellis' 4 year production: 8.5 - year 1 5.0 - year 2 4.0 - year 3 12.5 - year 4 schobel was every bit as good as ellis last year, and has had a better career to date then ellis has had.......i don't know why bills fans refuse to recognize the guy is a good young player who is on the rise..... you guys keep saying wait, wait, wait.......well, by the time schobel puts up the kind of year you guys think he should, he'll have priced himself out of our range and we'll stand no chance of keeping the guy....the closer he gets to free agency, the more attrative that becomes to him.......in the NFL, you need to be ahead of the game.......by sitting back, the bills are blowing their chance...... 11599[/snapback] You are asumming that sacks are everything about a DE....Schoebel hasn't been able to apply the big QB pressure. Quite a few of his sacks have been coverage sacks...He rarely gets double teamed. Also his game against the Run has been average to decent, not exceptional. He is a good player, but not a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 What makes you think either of these players wants to sign now? Wouldn't you wait for the big pay day at the end of the season if you were in their position? If I recall correctly, TD tried to work deals for both of these guys in the offseason and neither wanted to extend. 11652[/snapback] i chalk this up to another excuse for TD....... there are guys all over the league working out deals right now......those teams are finding a way to lock up their good young talent, so why can't we?? i just don't buy it.....you can't tell me schobel, jennings, and williams are ALL the problem here.....maybe one, possibly two, but not all 3...... nope, that arguement was made about peerless, same with winfield, and now your gonna use it on these 3 guys....i think it's obvious -- TD is cheap.......it's not the players who are holding out for free agency......it's TD not offering them fair market value...... like i said, other teams are locking up their key young players...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 You are asumming that sacks are everything about a DE....Schoebel hasn't been able to apply the big QB pressure. Quite a few of his sacks have been coverage sacks...He rarely gets double teamed. Also his game against the Run has beenaverage to decent, not exceptional. He is a good player, but not a great player. 11660[/snapback] Nice summary ganesh. Seattle is going to find out what it's like first hand to overspend for a GOOD DE i.e Wistrom. The question is, what is Plan B if the Bills decide to let AS hit the F/A market other than Marcus Jones??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 You are asumming that sacks are everything about a DE....Schoebel hasn't been able to apply the big QB pressure. Quite a few of his sacks have been coverage sacks...He rarely gets double teamed. Also his game against the Run has beenaverage to decent, not exceptional. He is a good player, but not a great player. 11660[/snapback] and ellis is a great player?? point is stats are used when talking contract, and in this case, schobel's agent will use his stats matched up against ellis to get a better deal....... TD can either pay fair market value for him, or let him walk.......seems to me he's gonna let him walk, because it would sure as hell be cheaper to sign him now then to wait until after he has another "good" season (personally, i think he'll have a "great" season)........ you guys all want a perfect player, and THEN you'll give him the big money after he's proven for 3 seasons he is the perfect player (and if his 2nd year is anything less then perfect, half of you will say to let him walk).......NFL doesn't work that way.....not successful teams anyway......they keep their good, young players around.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven in MD Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 What makes you think either of these players wants to sign now? Wouldn't you wait for the big pay day at the end of the season if you were in their position? If I recall correctly, TD tried to work deals for both of these guys in the offseason and neither wanted to extend. 11652[/snapback] The reason to sign now is to get the money NOW! Actually resigning Shoebel could lower his cap number for this year (though I doubt it would). The other reason is injury. Should any of the potential FA get injuried, their market value drops. I think TD likes to underpay for talent. Just look at his history in Pitt, he let MANY good young players go because he refused to pay them. In his defense, the owner was a cheap bastard in Pitt, something he does not have to deal with here in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 the bills have the choice?? hardly.....schobel and jennings have the choice, and the longer we wait before signing them, the more appealing free agency will be for them....... if you plan on signing one of the two, why not do it now when it will be CHEAPER??? waiting until later just drives up the price.....and at that point, the bills will be lucky to retain either...... sitting back and waiting gets you no where in this league..... 11606[/snapback] Funny, but with all this blustering on about TD lacking in forsight in not signing Schobel to this deal he so richly deserves, I haven't seen you actually explain how it is that he do this with about $1 Million left in cap space and a back-up QB to sign. Please, before calling TD cheap, why don't you propose how it is that he make this happen. Should he start back down the road of converting salaries to bonuses and creating dead cap space for the future? Or are there some expensive vets that he needs to release right now before the season starts, the savings from which he can sign Schobel? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I disagree. Ellis is far superior to Schobel at stopping the run.Pass rush wise, they're about a draw. Last year Schobel got a lot of sacks at garbage time, while Ellis got a lot of sacks against Mike Williams. 11649[/snapback] Bullseye . Schobel also had twice as many sacks as Jason Taylor. Who would you rather have ? Schobel gets blown out on most run sweeps to his side of the field. Misleading stats = RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Funny, but with all this blustering on about TD lacking in forsight in not signing Schobel to this deal he so richly deserves, I haven't seen you actually explain how it is that he do this with about $1 Million left in cap space. Please, before calling TD cheap, why don't you propose how it is that he make this happen. Should he start back down the road of converting salaries to bonuses and creating dead cap space for the future? Or are there some expensive vets that he needs to release right now before the season starts, the savings from which he can sign Schobel? Inquiring minds want to know. 11677[/snapback] funny you should ask BB....... for starters, he shouldn't have released ruben before june 1st......i said it at the time and was shouted down with "we have lots of cap room, no worries" comments..........with that much dead money left on the contract, it made more sense to spread it out over two years OR keep ruben around for one more season to lower the dead cap hit in '05......... secondly, extensions to average players hasn't helped the cap.......for example, prioleau is a cap hit of 1.4 million this year.........dumb extension, made no sense, but TD did it anyway........ lastly, having a guy like teague counting almost 3 million on the cap is a huge error.........teague is an average C at best, and we're paying him like he's top 5 at the position.......another horrible move...... with ruben's release after june and prioleau and teague's cap hits not around, this team would have enough money to lock up all 3 big free agents for next year...... you can call it hindsight if you want, but i was against all of these moves at the time they happened.....they all look bad now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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