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Nix and Cornell Green


Gabe Northern

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I agree with you that there was no way Nix could fill all our holes in one offseason, let alone one draft. But that said, the two needs I considered most important going into that draft were QB and OL. Clearly, Nix did almost nothing to address either of those needs.

 

But that doesn't make him a bad GM. It's rare to find a good LT outside of round 1. There were no LTs worthy of being chosen 9th overall. Clausen didn't go until the middle of the second round, so picking him 9th overall would have been a mistake as well. As much as I was annoyed by the idea of going with a RB over a LT or QB in the first round, I can see where the players available would indicate that kind of decision.

 

At least early on, Nix seems to have gotten good value from his overall collection of draft picks, and from his more important free agent signings (except Cornell Green). If he continues with that track record, then sooner or later this team will be rebuilt, and we'll have the holes at QB and OL fixed.

 

 

I pretty much agree with everything here. RT and QB positions are going to need an upgrade, and we definently need line depth. And depending on how bell turns out, we will probably need an LT as well. I think Bell showed enough improvement in this last game that there is a chance by the end of the season, he will be a solid LT. But it is way too soon to say we don't need a starting LT. RT though.... that is an obvious, must have, need.

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I agree with you that there was no way Nix could fill all our holes in one offseason, let alone one draft. But that said, the two needs I considered most important going into that draft were QB and OL. Clearly, Nix did almost nothing to address either of those needs.

 

But that doesn't make him a bad GM. It's rare to find a good LT outside of round 1. There were no LTs worthy of being chosen 9th overall. Clausen didn't go until the middle of the second round, so picking him 9th overall would have been a mistake as well. As much as I was annoyed by the idea of going with a RB over a LT or QB in the first round, I can see where the players available would indicate that kind of decision.

 

At least early on, Nix seems to have gotten good value from his overall collection of draft picks, and from his more important free agent signings (except Cornell Green). If he continues with that track record, then sooner or later this team will be rebuilt, and we'll have the holes at QB and OL fixed.

 

Clearly anyone with a brain could look at last years team and realize the weakest areas of the team were offensive line and run defense, more specifically both tackles and OLB

 

I can only imagine that Chan Gailey fed Nix the same crap that he fed us fans in stating that "" a good RB can make the O line better"" We all witnessed Sunday that statement was complete and utter BS, the only thing that will make that Bills O line better is two tackles.

 

Nix probably watched Sundays game and realized it was a mistake to sign Green and now he needs to upgrade that RT position asap. Still, it troubles me though knowing that Nix thought the team could get by with Bell and Green

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Nix has improved the roster, it's hard to argue with that. But how do you go into the season with only 4 capable linemen? I know you can't rebuild overnight - but you need to do whatever needs to be done to get a serviceable RT. Green is not capable of playing the position. Folks, it's a fact, you don't need to work in an NFL front office to see it. HE CANNOT PLAY. Get someone else in there now and stop messing around.

 

I don't fault Buddy too far on this, because I have not seen Green play enough, or over his recent seasons, and don't really know how he compares to starting Meredith, etc.

 

He clearly seems like a week link, and I hope we find a way to get him out of the lineup soon THIS SEASON. I know Buddy is definitely thinking about that and trying to find a way. I can't imagine Wang or Meredith or Ubrick would be worse, and I think the Bills will make an adjustment here very soon.

 

The Butler situation is definitely what caused this issue, and I don't think Cornell was a terrible signing given the circumstances unless this level of sucking is what really should have been expected. But they have to admit their error and get Cornell down the depth chart or off the team pretty soon.

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You guys have lived in N.Y. way to long you've got to start looking for the silver lining instead of doom & gloom all the time . LIGHTEN UP !! :nana:

 

 

I crack up when I read stuff like this...

 

You don't think the attitude has anything to do with a decade of ineptitude do ya?

 

Lighten up...Sure... :thumbsup:

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So true. Lets look at Nixs record so far:

Cornell Green-worst free agent signing in years

Spiller- luxury pick we couldnt afford, already had 2 starters + Bell

QB-Does nothing to upgrade worst QB in NFL and hated by fans, not respected by the players

OT- Does nothing, besides Cornhole, to improve position, actually by cutting Scott made it worse

OLB-no improvement, Kelsay? Really?

Nix made this team worse his first year.

If we started a poll on this board to determine our draft, free agents and cuts i think we'd do a better job than Nix, cant do any worse.

 

Yep, great organization all the way through. Gotta love having a 70 yr old GM. Getter Done!!!

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Being a Bills fan is not for the faint of heart. Anyone who doesn't realize that the rebuilding process is a multi-year process is in for a depressing surprise. There are no quick and magical fixes. It is going to take time. Over a period of three years this roster will turn over by 75%.

 

I never liked the Cornell Green signing. It didn't make sense to bring in a lower tier OT and pay him as a starter. But to be fair to Nix there were few adequate OTs available on the market. A number of people (including me) have cited Jamaal Brown as a viable option. The Saints were willing to trade him for a third round pick. Although JB would seem like an appealing addition to a woeful line there are reasons why our front office needed to be cautious. For one reason, he has an injury history. His hip is still causing him problems. In addition, his contract is up after this year making him a potential one year player. Why give up a relatively high pick for a one year replacement player?

 

What this historically disheveled organization needs more than anything is a stable front office and staff which make sound personnel decisions that will benefit the team in the long run. Making expedient personnel moves to address problems in the short-term while damaging the long term prospects is like prospecting for fools gold. It simply doesn't work.

 

Drafting well and steadily improving the roster when an opportunity materializes, such as the Ubrick pickup, is the right course for Nix to take. The fan frustration level is going to increase. The number of empty seats at the Ralph will increase as the season advances and the losses mount. Nix has been around a long time and has worked with people (Polian, Butler/A.J. Smith) who know how to build a franchise. Nix knows that the only way to turn this archaic franchise around is to add talent to this very depleted roster. Whether one likes it or not it is going to take time.

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How does the Cornell Green signing impact your opinion of Buddy Nix?

 

Cornell is making $3 million per year (including roster bonuses) yet no other team showed interest and the Raiders were eager to replace him. He's 34 years old and is not getting any better. This is a terrible decision in terms of the quality of the player and the financial impact to the team.

 

He is clearly much worse than Jonathan Scott, who we could have retained for an $850K tender. More amazingly, he is the worst player on an offensive line that was already the worst in football.

 

The Nix devotees on this board need to take this colossal personnel failure into account when talking about how this guy is going to rebuild the roster.

 

 

 

Wait, you're saying that he's not perfect. I'm shocked.

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So true. Lets look at Nixs record so far:

Cornell Green-worst free agent signing in years

Spiller- luxury pick we couldnt afford, already had 2 starters + Bell

QB-Does nothing to upgrade worst QB in NFL and hated by fans, not respected by the players

OT- Does nothing, besides Cornhole, to improve position, actually by cutting Scott made it worse

OLB-no improvement, Kelsay? Really?

Nix made this team worse his first year.

If we started a poll on this board to determine our draft, free agents and cuts i think we'd do a better job than Nix, cant do any worse.

 

 

 

He made the team worse in his first year? Yeah, maybe.

 

But you've missed the point. His first year isn't important. The first year in a rebuild almost always sucks, particularly if systems get switched. That's what happens in a rebuild. And while many here wanted to pretend that we were going to be good this year, it sure didn't look that way to folks across the country, or to realistic Bills fans. Only a minority of folks took this year seriously. Apparently you were one of them? If so, your busted expectations are partly your own fault.

 

The important years in a rebuild are the third and fourth years. And while there's no way of proving that the moves he made this year will make us better three years from now, I think they do. We've got several young guys playing part-time and we brought in a number of guys who have the correct physiques and qualifications to play well in the 3 - 4.

 

More amazingly, he is the worst player on an offensive line that was already the worst in football. Point well made. But I have to say Green Bay line almost as bad as ours...

 

 

Not even close. They look bad because Rodgers holds the ball a long long time. But they're an average line.

 

PFF had the Green Bay linemen ranked well above ours last year, far above them, with the exception of Butler, but no use evaluating him, obviously.

Edited by Thurman#1
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http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

 

Seems like there were a few free agent lineman.

 

Beggars shouldn't put on elitist airs.

 

 

 

Free agent linemen, yes!

 

Free agents who did NOT RESIGN with their own teams? Um, much fewer.

 

GOOD free agents who did not resign with their own teams? Quite a lot fewer.

 

Good free agent RTs or LTs who did not resign with their own teams? Few.

 

Good YOUNG free agent RTs or LTs who did not resign with their own teams. Very few.

 

Hey, Brad Butler is on that list, and he fills all my qualifications. We should pick him up.

Edited by Thurman#1
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GG and Sisyphean,

 

You both make good points. I think the switch had more to do with the success of 3-4s in the division and the bonus of practicing against it if you run it. Gailey said as much. You're going to have to show me where he said the switch was personnel based, because I don't remember that.

 

My point with guys like Kelsay and Stroud is: They suck, but they are well paid. Since they're going to get paid anyway, why not try them elsewhere and see if they suck less. If they work out,then great. If not, Carrington and the newly drafted rookie will play next year. Maybe Carrington is not strong enough. Maybe Maybin has issues too. I think it's a lot more complex than to say after 1 game, "he sucks, play the young guy". You will see youth served, just not all at the same time in the 1st 3rd of the season.

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I love this thread! All the p*ssers and moaners, hand wringers and "woe is us" folks all in one place. You guys follow each other around and dress alike? Jeez, a bad stop gap player, you're right, Nix and Gailey gotta go.....they shoulda brought in an elite LT and QB and some stud linebackers. The idiots...why didn't they just ask TSW.

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Free agent linemen, yes!

 

Free agents who did NOT RESIGN with their own teams? Um, much fewer.

 

GOOD free agents who did not resign with their own teams? Quite a lot fewer.

 

Good free agent RTs or LTs who did not resign with their own teams? Few.

 

Good YOUNG free agent RTs or LTs who did not resign with their own teams. Very few.

 

Hey, Brad Butler is on that list, and he fills all my qualifications. We should pick him up.

I'm going to dub this the "Sitting There With Your Thumb Up Your Ass" argument.

 

How many great, young lineman become available in free agency? Very, very few and the reason for that is patently obvious.

 

How many great, young lineman want to come to Buffalo? Let's just say zero for simplicity's sake. Again, for obvious reasons.

 

So, the franchise builder's strategy is sit there with your thumb up your butt until such time as a good, young lineman is available and wants to play in Buffalo? Why? Because there is no other way to get better than to jump on the next Steve Hutchinson that comes available? [Answer: I think the truth is exactly as Nix said in a press conference; he doesn't believe in paying another guy's players. His philosophy is to build through the draft.]

 

That doesn't really explain why they went out and overpaid for a terrible, journeyman RT who's still not "developed".

 

FWIW, the argument that the Bills couldn't find anyone better than Green may be true. But, that's pretty damn sad on many levels.

Edited by Sisyphean Bills
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He made the team worse in his first year? Yeah, maybe.

 

But you've missed the point. His first year isn't important. The first year in a rebuild almost always sucks, particularly if systems get switched. That's what happens in a rebuild. And while many here wanted to pretend that we were going to be good this year, it sure didn't look that way to folks across the country, or to realistic Bills fans. Only a minority of folks took this year seriously. Apparently you were one of them? If so, your busted expectations are partly your own fault.

 

The important years in a rebuild are the third and fourth years. And while there's no way of proving that the moves he made this year will make us better three years from now, I think they do. We've got several young guys playing part-time and we brought in a number of guys who have the correct physiques and qualifications to play well in the 3 - 4.

Well said! :thumbsup:

 

The first question you have to ask with a rebuilding effort is this: did we lose anyone who could help us significantly three or four years down the line? Brad Butler retired, but Nix can hardly be blamed for Butler's decision to abandon football in favor of politics. Aaron Schobel and Terrell Owens were aging players nearing retirement. Very unlikely to be useful in 2013. Whatever young players we may have lost seem like backup quality at best.

 

The next question you have to ask is, did we gain anyone who can help us significantly three or four years down the line? The answer there is yes as well: Spiller, Troupe, other draft picks, and some free agent signings.

 

The third question you have to ask is, are we gaining new talent at a fast enough pace for the rebuilding effort to succeed? Every team in the NFL is always losing talent due to retirements, career-ending injuries, aging players not playing as well as they once did, etc. A strategy of "add one good player a year for the next 22 years" won't get you 22 good starters, because the starters you acquired in the early years of that plan will be retired long before year 22.

 

At least this early in Nix's tenure, it's difficult to determine whether the pace of talent acquisition is fast enough. But at least thus far, the pace of talent acquisition seems pretty good.

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I love reading this board, you got to be kidding. He forgot more about football than 50 posters on this board combined and you want US run the team?

Unbilleivable You don't read the board if you think that.

 

Yep!! He has forgotten more than I will ever understand, I dont like Green but we needed a stop gap Wang hopefully will be that guy...

 

Well said! :thumbsup:

 

The first question you have to ask with a rebuilding effort is this: did we lose anyone who could help us significantly three or four years down the line? Brad Butler retired, but Nix can hardly be blamed for Butler's decision to abandon football in favor of politics. Aaron Schobel and Terrell Owens were aging players nearing retirement. Very unlikely to be useful in 2013. Whatever young players we may have lost seem like backup quality at best.

 

The next question you have to ask is, did we gain anyone who can help us significantly three or four years down the line? The answer there is yes as well: Spiller, Troupe, other draft picks, and some free agent signings.

 

The third question you have to ask is, are we gaining new talent at a fast enough pace for the rebuilding effort to succeed? Every team in the NFL is always losing talent due to retirements, career-ending injuries, aging players not playing as well as they once did, etc. A strategy of "add one good player a year for the next 22 years" won't get you 22 good starters, because the starters you acquired in the early years of that plan will be retired long before year 22.

 

At least this early in Nix's tenure, it's difficult to determine whether the pace of talent acquisition is fast enough. But at least thus far, the pace of talent acquisition seems pretty good.

 

Totally agree!!! Teams are not made in one year... As Nix said He started in January, He is moving forward from that date.... So lets see how it goes 2 of our draft picks are on IR already the team can not get thoose picks back...

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And so far, their method to improve the team have come by scouring the waiver wires and practice squads of other teams. Yet, we haven't seen those guys cracking the lineup other than in emergency situations. Is Cornell Green really that much better than Jamon Meredith? Yes, Urbick is an interesting prospect, but getting cut by Pitt, which also has a bad OL isn't inspiring confidence.

 

They also said that the best way to build a team is through the draft. Hard to argue with the logic ... except that if you do that, you better have a higher hit ratio on those draft picks.

 

People love Nix's straighforward demeanor. But the early results aren't as colorful as his tongue.

 

 

Was the kid we let go from Iowa that bad ?? It sucks that we basically wasted a draft pick just to let the kid go . Was it Calloway ?? I didn't get to see hm in any of the preseason games but would have thought his upside would be better than Greens , and if the kid knows our offense why wouldn't they bring him back ??

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I love this thread! All the p*ssers and moaners, hand wringers and "woe is us" folks all in one place. You guys follow each other around and dress alike? Jeez, a bad stop gap player, you're right, Nix and Gailey gotta go.....they shoulda brought in an elite LT and QB and some stud linebackers. The idiots...why didn't they just ask TSW.

Harrumph!!!

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No offense, but after seeing Kelsay at 4-3 DE last 5 years, how would anyone think that he would be ok as OLB in a 3-4?

 

Very few people focused on Gailey's comments on switching to a 3-4. He said that the reason he did it is that in his observation of the roster, he felt that the talent was more condusive for a 3-4. Then they go ahead and draft entirely for defense, even though the talent at hand was better suited for a 3-4? The story doesn't wash with the actions.

 

That's why the thread "Why not clean for real" makes esnse. If you're committed to rebuilding, then do it right. Why continue with the charade that Kelsay has a spot on this revamped roster? You can look equally pathetic with project rookies that can hopefully grow into the new system that you're putting in.

They kept Kelsay because they use 4 down linemen in the nickel.

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