oldmanfan
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Posts posted by oldmanfan
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6 minutes ago, Rubes said:
Since we're almost upon the draft, I thought I'd bring up this annual topic:
First rounders are believed, by most, to have the best chance of success in the NFL, on average. But as we all know, the draft is largely a crapshoot, and first rounders fail to live up to expectations all the time (looking at you, Elam). Sometimes we chalk it up to poor player evaluation, or poor player adjustment to the NFL, among other things. In some cases, we also think the specific situation they're drafted into is the cause, whether it's poor coaching, poor team culture, lack of supporting cast, and so on.
If that latter point is the case it stands to reason those players could be successful in a different situation, on a different team.
I'm wondering how often we see that this is the case with 1st rounders. That is, how many first rounders fail on the teams that drafted them, only to be released or traded to another team to become as successful as originally projected when they were drafted? Is the specific drafting team situation really a thing that has been proven by those who have changed teams? Or is it mostly a convenient excuse?
What are some strong examples of first rounders who failed to live up to expectations on their drafting team, and then left to go to another team and achieved the success that eluded them? Does Jerry Hughes fit this? Are there others?
Jim Plunkett.
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At the turn of the century there was a list of the thousand most important people of the millennium. The top of the list was Gutenberg because of the printing press. I vote for that because the printing press allowed for the widespread sharing and application of knowledge.
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To watch him live at the Rich was unbelievable. A phenomenal talent, one of the best ever, but also a degenerate murderer post NFL. I have no sorrow or mercy for him today.
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Funny this is asked during Masters week
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Diggs of course. Reich had the most iconic moment. Let’s not be ridiculous.
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You can’t fix stupid
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Try and trade up for one of the top 3. If you can’t make the deal stand Pat, they’ll be some pretty good ones at 28.
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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:
If that is all you think we need then I don't know what to tell you. We may have guys we could start if we HAD to, but lets not pretend we are better at each of those positions than we were last year on a team that already didn't make it past the 2nd round and had to rally just not to miss the playoffs.
We are better at safety. Two younger guys with experience in Rapp and Edwards for two older guys. We are the same if not better at DT. At LB Milano is back so better there. At DE lost Floyd but Miller should be healed up. On O line May lose a bit in the run game since Morse could pull well but should be better in pass pro. Got our two RB back. Fine at TE.
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8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:
To me - depth is the difference between great and good. Players will get hurt. If the players who step in are incapable of getting it done, it ends up showing within your W/L record.
We always bring in depth. Every team does. I think a mistake some make is in thinking depth guys should perform at an All Pro level.
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4 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:
I think the depth at CB, S, DT, and DE are a bit concerning. I hope they draft a back late just to get a cheap option on the books - sick of signing league minimum vets who aren't very good.
Safety - still free agents out there that could be interesting options if they decide to add a vet and keep rapp as a 3rd safety.
CB - Several late round picks, i'd expect we use one here
DT - 3T has a gaping hole behind oliver. Considering the pass rush can be somewhat reliant upon this position, i'd put a quality player on a rookie deal as among the more important things to walk away from in this draft
DE - Rousseau is about off his rookie deal, doesn't need to be super high but another position where they need to find someone to contribute today with upside into the future.
To me depth does not equal holes. A hole to me is needing a starter.
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32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
lol…another 0% chance scenario. Every thread you’re giving away the farm to get every WR with no consideration for substantial amount of holes on this team.
There is absolutely no chance Beane is trading up TWICE in first 2 rounds for 2 WRs leaving us very little ammo to find the players we need in our secondary and DL as well. Not to mention another RB and OL depth we are likely going to use some of the day 3 picks on. And to do so in the deepest and richest WR draft in history is utterly insane.
To get into the mid teens, it’s probably going to cost us our first next year as well without having to gut some of our draft capital this year that we need. Everyone forgets the other team needs to want to move back to and be worth passing on the talent that will be there at OL, DL, CB, and even the WR for themselves.
Where at these holes? Maybe 1 guy at DE. We have starters at CB, S, LB, O line, RB, DT, DE.
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1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:
D-Line is hardly as set as you would like - Have to look at DE at a minimum. They also need youth on D-line. Von is a shell of himself and getting NFL old. Oliver is good, Epenesa a good rotational player but the rest of the group is a patchwork.
I am looking at starters, where you have to fill in a starting spot. They have Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller at that spot. As P pointed out they could add a draft pick ther levfor depth but it is not a hole.
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Can’t tell for sure with Diggs until we see who they bring in but will likely miss him a bit. Morse maybe on the run game unless McGovern can pull as well as Morse did, but may be stronger there in pass protection. Floyd a bit. Not at safety and I think Hyde may very well be back.
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I’ll offer an opinion on September 1.
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2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:
I didn’t say they had to tell anyone, just that it is very out of the ordinary and odd. Why wouldn’t a team be transparent about it? I guess it rubs me wrong for this reason: Beane is the GM. If he has final say then I see no reason at all to not tell the public. But if it’s McDermott, then it’s a problem because Beane winds up taking the heat for decisions he’s getting stuck with. That would be dysfunctional.
I’m not so sure it’s out of the ordinary. Would have to compare to other teams.
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12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:
I have levied criticism of McDermott and Beane. On thing I always note when doing so is that it’s unclear who is ultimately making the final decisions. I think that Beane reports to McDermott, but I’m not sure. The Bills invite this kind of speculation because they will not tell the public who has the final roster authority or what the reporting structure. I’ve always found this unnecessary and odd. I can’t say I’ve seen that level of secrecy over that information before.
Why should they have to tell the public that. They run it the way they run it. Beane should get credit for the good things he does and criticism for the bad things like anyone else. Given they are a perennial playoff team there have been more good moves than bad.
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Just now, MJS said:
Oline depth would be nice. Edge rusher would be good. Receiver, obviously. Maybe Safety. I'm not really concerned with safety, but it wouldn't be bad to bring in a young guy to develop.
I really think Receiver is the only hole. Maybe edge rusher but a lot depends on how impactful Von Miller will be. We don't have a consistent sack producer unless he gets back to form.
But this team needs more elite game wreckers. Draft players who can become that. The Bills have had a good team for awhile now, but they lack the elite guys who can take over a game.
Agreed. That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised to see Beane trade a ton of picks to get a guy at WR they see as elite.
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In all the wailing and gnashing of teeth this off-season, the reality is we really have just two “needs” right now: WR and S. And even safety is questionable given Edward’s coming on board.
I tend to believe Beane when he talks. And he said the roster now is not what it will be in September. He also said the team needs to get more explosive. So I look for either a big move up to get one of the top 3 WRs, or a smaller move up in around 1 to get a kid that can take the roof off with speed. Then maybe a S, maybe a quick edge guy. Maybe a big RB late. But whomever will be a guy with however Beane wants to define explosive.
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18 minutes ago, billieve420 said:
Team better be right if they make a move like this as there is a number of holes to fill. Not sure if that would be something I would personally do. I would rather take slow approach even if we end up being slightly worse off this year.
Where are these holes? I’ll go position by position:
QB: Josh. Duh
RB: Cook and Williams. Pick up a road grader late in the draft
OL: all set there, only lost Morse and picked up Collins for depth
DL: all set at DT, might look at DE in the draft but have 3 guys there already
LB: no holes there
CB: have your starters, probably add a guy late
S: have your starters in Rapp and Edward’s, backup with Lewis, probably draft another.
So spend some capital to get a WR.
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14 minutes ago, uticaclub said:
Miller was old and signed because we had spent obscene amount of cap space & draft capital on push rush & got nothing.
We don't know what Diggs issues were. They could have been with Beane & management
We got a lot of sacks, just what we wanted, until the ACL.
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16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:
Historically Thurman's correct. Trading up to get a WR is a fool's game. I might do it for Harrison this year, because Allen's rotting on the vine only, but that won't be an option.
Diminishing the value of next year's picks seems fine now, but next year we'd regret it unless that player shattered rookie expectations. Beane's track record of that is zilch on top of it all.
We currently only have two picks this year in the range of possibly getting NFL starters. Selling the farm and reducing that to one isn't it best strategy.
Beane needs to start hitting better on draft picks however.
Saying Allen is rotting on the vine is perhaps the most ridiculously hyperbolic statement made on this board in recent memory.
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Beane has a plan. He wouldn’t make a move like this without one. And we’ll see it play out this month.
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Not much of a market for Diggs according to Greg Cosell.
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34 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
I honestly don't think that the Bills do this without Allen give it a thumbs up.
I think James Jones on one of those talk shows said the Bills figured out they can with without him.
Allen spreads the ball out well, maybe better than any QB in the league. With Diggs getting up there in age, slowing down and Allen not having to worry about getting Diggs his targets....Allen could actually be better. You can't force the balls to Diggs like it's 2020 or 2021 anymore. Diggs will want his targets regardless if he's slowing down.
Allen can now just walk up to the line and can just throw it where he thinks its the best place to go rather than satisfying Diggs ego. It has to be a relief IMO.
WR are diva's and probably will have to deal with something like this again but a more mature way. I appreciate what Diggs did for us for 4 seasons but these, what Tim Graham said "micro aggressions" do get annoying, especially for Allen.
You have to assume both Allen and Brady gave their OKs.
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Why does Beane get a pass?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Why pose it as a question of such extremes?