The Athletic All-22: Why the film shows Duke Williams should be active in the playoffs

[BuffaloBill963]

22 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Well, there you have it folks, it has become Main Stream obvious, Duke Williams should be active and used in our offense, this has been very obvious to many off us here and in the greater Bills world for quite some time now. Now maybe, just maybe those who have not seen the forest through the trees might just notice the shrubbery....

 

Go Bills!!!

People usually respond when a perceived authority tells them what to think. So yeah, a lot of the lemmings here will likely change their minds now. More so when DW continues to produce and make big plays 

[mykidsdad]

7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Or we do what most teams do with their #3 wr. Not play him on ST. There, problem solved. Let Kevin, Taron and Perry cover fair catches & touchbacks. This ST argument for benching Duke is so incredibly lame.

I think you underestimate the value of a good special teamer, especially a gunner.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

McKenzie is better at them. He's much more elusive than Foster with the ball in his hands. Plus he's been used in the short passing game at times.

 

Honestly I thought Foster would prove to be a good NFL WR this year... boy was I wrong. He's a waste of a gameday roster spot.

 

There's no good reason he should be active and Duke should be inactive.

 

Yet, that's what's going to happen.

When a player is targeted 16 times in the season, how do you expect him to excel.   With emergence of Knox and arrival of Beasley and Brown, there has been no opportunities for Foster. 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

When a player is targeted 16 times in the season, how do you expect him to excel.   With emergence of Knox and arrival of Beasley and Brown, there has been no opportunities for Foster. 

Foster has not been able to create opportunities for himself. Maybe Williams can. 

[Nelius]

Foster is awful on offense. I get the argument that you shouldn't see the field if you can't play special teams, but what if you're a wide receiver that can't play offense? It's got to be the Daboll connection, right? If he's our "primary gunner" than he must be pretty incredible at it because it's truly all he can do right now. I've asked this before, but is he the best gunner in the league or something, or just a really fast guy? I would think an increased chance of scoring touchdowns is more important than an average punt gunner but what the hell do I know. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Nelius

[JESSEFEFFER]

Tracking a ball over one's shoulder and adjusting to it is not easy.  Beasley had one hit him in the helmet in Jets1 and one through his hands vs Ravens.  It seems to not be his thing.

 

Brown is good at it I think.  Zay was poor and Foster not so much either.  I think Duke has shown to be pretty good at it in a few game settings and in some of the practice highlights we have seen.  The EZ post TD against the Titans is another strong route for Duke.  It is tough for a DB to make a play on the ball around Duke's wider body.

[Nelius]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

When a player is targeted 16 times in the season, how do you expect him to excel.   With emergence of Knox and arrival of Beasley and Brown, there has been no opportunities for Foster. 

 

Fans waited the entire regular season for Foster to wake up and reproduce what he showed last year, and now that he completely failed at that, it's because he didn't have opportunities?  People joke about the legend of Duke Williams around here, but man, the legend of Robert Foster is just as popular. He has done absolutely nothing all season.

[DrPJax]

Interesting debate thread;  I just wonder how most people will feel IF Mcd sticks with the same roster ( no duke , Yeldon , Sweeney as Foster, L Smith , and DiMarco stay active ) and we happen to lose 18+ vs our 17 point production that we have even struggled to produce the final month of the season.  Yes , imo it is a successful season overall with team , roster improvement etc,  but is a one and done playoff appearance acceptable for a Staff  with its second playoff appearance in a season where the AFC title is not a forgone Pats certainty ?  We all

now expect to keep making the playoffs in the future but why let an opportunity go by when just perhaps taking some roster “ risks” could have a huge payoff given our D consistency? 
 

 

Many have advanced  the argument about not losing special team efficiency by removing a gunner , Foster, who we might all agree has had little to zero offensive impact. I think his role is being overstated. I have watched every game , play , and Imo our field position battle is mostly dependent on our punters effectiveness. Rarely has the gunner determined the outcome of field position. I would argue if we are so concerned about returns that we have to keep a roster spot just for Foster, why not take the returns out of the equation and punt directionally to eliminate returns?  Other teams do this and if there is a chance we can add one more weapon for our anemic pass production ( we are what 24, 25 th in the nfl ?) in a one game win or go home scenario, I would favor that.  How about some creative special teams coaching, and do something the Texans don’t expect. Do I think Mcd will “ stay in the foxhole “ as another poster coined an analogy, unfortunately yes. I hope I am wrong and Mcd has the courage to take a small risk for a possible large return. One and done with no attempt to help this offensive lack of production would feel like a let down and would raise some concern about if our staff can adjust to produce a super bowl winner, contender consistently as is their mission statement. 
 

 

So I don’t see adding Duke at the expense of Foster or a safety as scrapping our prior whole season of special team or defensive game plan. What I am suggesting is that this offense, based on the last month, is not capable of winning without a stellar defensive game, and now we face teams who have shown they are capable of easily putting 20 plus up even despite the best defenses. I don’t see us winning in the playoffs with less than 20 points. I would love to see us take a chance to jump start this offense with more creative play calling ( how bout another Smoke td pass), some unexpected personnel moves ( Duke , Yeldon to active squad ) , urgency to score ( only one td on our opening drive in 2019, can’t we script more effectively early to help Josh?),  go deep more like the 2 successful plays against the pats, be willing to throw some 50/50 balls if we get in the red zone because fgs aren’t going to cut it, knock off the predictable first down handoffs to Singletary plunging into the line, etc. 

 

One person I wouldn’t mess with is Roberts ; he may not have returned any for tds yet but the guy is money on punts and he never lets the ball hit the ground. That alone always helps us win the field position battle and he has been close to breaking it in several punt returns. So, we all saw what Yeldon , Sweeney, Williams did against a good jets D. Williams caught the game winning td against the Titans yet has barely seen the field  since. It’s all on the line this Saturday and if Mcd sticks with keeping all those options off the table and we should lose because our O fails to produce again, will you be satisfied that “we showed we could play with them and it came down to that last drive”?   Hey , a loss is a loss and you still go home for a long off season.  I think this is a winnable game IF we step up to “ championship caliber “ coaching and chance to win , not to just not lose.  Willing to be humble, rejoice  if the process stays the same and we win a low scoring ( offense scores less than 20) game, but I think a few tweaks and we end up in the AFC championship! 
 

 

 

[GG]

The sages keep bringing up Foster's value as a gunner. 

 

I've watched a few punt coverage replays.  I didn't see anything special from #16.  Perry and Neal certainly stood on film.   What am I missing?

[Freddie's Dead]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

there are Players on this team that offer nothing close to what Roberts offers. So the people advocating putting Robert on the Inactive list for Duke Williams really need to know their team. 
 

you don’t put a top 5 KR and top 10 PR on inactive list for a couple catches maybe 50 yards and maybe a TD. 
 

does Duke Williams put 108 up when he is sharing TGTs with Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary. People want to use the Jets game as evidence. Good use it how many of those Targets during Jets Game does he get with Brown, Beasley, Singletary and Knox on the Field?

 

If Roberts is healthy, he plays.  He's only inactive if he can't go.  I'm a big McKittrick fan, especially the nearly guaranteed 10+ yards he gets on every jet sweep, so I don't get why people want him inactive.  Lee Smith is a great choice, because he holds too much, but I think he has pictures.  I'll also throw in breasts on a Bull DiMarco, but he also has pictures.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Freddie's Dead

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, mykidsdad said:

I think you underestimate the value of a good special teamer, especially a gunner.

 

I think you overestimate Robert Foster as a gunner.

 

Dude's not Steve Tasker.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

When a player is targeted 16 times in the season, how do you expect him to excel.   With emergence of Knox and arrival of Beasley and Brown, there has been no opportunities for Foster. 

 

Robert Foster: 18 targets, 3 receptions, 64 yards, 0 TDs

 

Duke Williams: 19 targets, 12 receptions, 166 yards, 1 TD

 

 

I'm sorry, but one of these things is not like the other.

1 hour ago, GG said:

The sages keep bringing up Foster's value as a gunner. 

 

I've watched a few punt coverage replays.  I didn't see anything special from #16.  Perry and Neal certainly stood on film.   What am I missing?

 

You're missing nothing.

 

It's sheer stupidity to keep Foster active for any reason over Duke at this point. And unfortunately, I think our coaching staff is stupid with regard to these particular players.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

Foster has not been able to create opportunities for himself. Maybe Williams can. 

I just think gives you something different.....the next time I see Foster out muscle someone for a 50 50 ball it will be the FIRST time.....we have NO size in our WR core when Duke does not play not withstanding the TE's.

 

You have at least 2 plays a game (important plays) where you come away thinking "If only that would have been Duke catching that"

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, mykidsdad said:

I think you underestimate the value of a good special teamer, especially a gunner.

In this new NFL and new rules I devalue ALL Special Teams with the exception of the kicker. Gunners do nothing but run fast and put on the brakes for a fair catch. How many turnovers or points has any member of our ST generated outside of Hauschka? Zero!  Find me a 6-3 gunner who can catch a ball 20 yards downfield and we'll talk.

[3rdand12]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:58 PM, Don Otreply said:

 I shall face my peril...

rising on my fluid list of favorite posters , you are.

[3rdand12]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:57 PM, Scott7975 said:

This could have been the NE play
 

 

Say no more !

[3rdand12]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:53 PM, CardinalScotts said:

First I like Duke, i noticed they have been using Foster to run the safety off. I haven't studied it enough to see how important this is to their successful plays but you have to respect Fosters speed- Duke doesn't have that speed. Dukes ability to get yards after catch is appealing, breaking tackles big body as well as having a big target in the red zone. We do have 2 big targets in Knox and Kroft and cant find them when throwing inside the opponents 10. You have had a successful season with Isiah McKenzie-Brown and Beasley ..do you scrap that and all of a sudden it's Duke ? I doubt McDermott would do that and then you factor in special teams..you cant lose the game on special teams this year. To switch that up would scare a lot of guys. Duke is a weapon he's not Roosevelt it would show a tremendous amount of belief to do it. I liked Foster running the jet sweep although McKenzie has been good doing it he does nothing else. 

 

Sweeney at tight end is a project if he played more snaps the defense would force him to stay in and block and he would be eaten up

No questions Sweeney is a project , and now is not the time.

Your points are well taken.  and solid

 

But Mckz and Brown are fast enough to take a safety as well. if that is the defense of keeping Duke sitting.

Allen needs Duke and Duke needs Allen. I have said it more than once.
and it brings out a different look for Houston's defense.

[3rdand12]

23 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

there are Players on this team that offer nothing close to what Roberts offers. So the people advocating putting Robert on the Inactive list for Duke Williams really need to know their team. 
 

you don’t put a top 5 KR and top 10 PR on inactive list for a couple catches maybe 50 yards and maybe a TD. 
 

does Duke Williams put 108 up when he is sharing TGTs with Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary. People want to use the Jets game as evidence. Good use it how many of those Targets during Jets Game does he get with Brown, Beasley, Singletary and Knox on the Field?

Roberts is not well understood her at times, or so it seems.
He never drops the ball. and when Coach tell him to bring it out  he does.

Is top notch in returns and i would never risk Hyde back there again this year. as far as usage? Game plan dependant.

 If he takes foster's targets away we get a better blocker ,and chance of increased  receptions per target. nd change in the playbook with route trees run

[Scott7975]

Bring

 

on

 

the

 

Duuuuuuuukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkke!!!!!!!!

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Chaos said:

Foster has not been able to create opportunities for himself. Maybe Williams can. 

This is key.

 I have been wishing Foster the best , Last years he looked to be coming on nicely with Josh.

 Defenses know how to mess his routes and he is not always aware of what is happening behind him. ( come back to the Ball etc)